Theos - Comment http://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment en-gb Sat, 14 Dec 2024 07:49:43 +0000 Christmas Contemplations https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/12/12/christmas-contemplations Thu, 12 Dec 2024 11:10:00 +0000 Christmas Contemplations

A selection of short reflections written ahead of Christmas 2024 by members of the Theos team. 12/12/2024

Let Your Choices Reflect Your Hopes 

By Andrew Graystone  

God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God’s glory displayed in the face of Christ.” – 2 Corinthians 4:6 

It’s said that human beings can survive about five weeks without food, and about five days without water, but we can’t survive five minutes without hope.     

Of course, hope comes in different shapes and sizes.

I hope the sun shines for the wedding on Saturday.
I hope Stockport County will beat Exeter at the weekend.  

Then there’s the altogether more serious stuff.

I hope I can make my money stretch to the end of the month.
I hope she makes it through the night.
I hope it works out this time.  

Is hope any more than optimism – a glass–half–full personality trait that comes naturally to some but not to others? I think it is. Christian believers are amongst those who choose hope, even when cynicism might be a lot easier. We can also cultivate hope, practice it, and make it a habit of character. Without being Panglossian, we can decide to orient ourselves towards a future that is good.  

On the basis of that choice we can live into the best possible future, not the worst one. In his autobiography, Nelson Mandela urged people to ‘Let your choices reflect your hopes, not your fears’.  

The season of Advent calls us to be realistic about the present darkness. But it also gives us glimpse into God’s future. It is precisely because of the darkness of this time of year, and the darkness of our world, that the rows of lights strung up on the houses all down my street seem so defiantly hopeful.  

It is a matter of choice to believe that the light at the end of the tunnel is getting nearer, not further away. Illuminated by that tiny light, we are called to the work of liberation in the mess and the muddle of our present world. We work to set free people who are oppressed and dress the wounds of people who are hurting.  We seek to bring hope to people who don’t have much of their own. It’s our choice to enjoy God today, and to live in the light of the freedom that we believe is coming tomorrow.   

A Whisper in the Turmoil 

By George Lapshynov 

In the five days before Christmas, one of the vesper hymns of the Orthodox Church proclaims: “The prophecies of all the prophets have been fulfilled, for Christ is born in the city of Bethlehem of the pure daughter of God”. 

The miracle of God’s incarnation marks the culmination of centuries of anticipation. But for those in Judaea at that historic moment, it was a time of profound uncertainty – politically volatile, economically precarious and spiritually fractured. The Roman occupation was enforced by a tyrannical king, while within Judaism, ideological and theological divisions ran deep. 

Yet amid the crises, God’s plan of redemption was quietly unfolding. As Judaea teetered on the brink of collapse, Christ was born, as St Paul would later write, “like a thief in the night” (1 Thess. 5:2). 

As the star rose over Bethlehem and the Magi set out on their journey, many were lamenting the ruinous state of their world. As the archangel Gabriel delivered his message to the Virgin Mary and the Holy Spirit descended upon her who was to become the ark of the New Covenant, Herod was plotting another vanity project. And while the Saviour was being born, most people, absorbed in the mundane activities of life, carried on, oblivious to the divine mystery unfolding in their midst. 

Christians like to imagine that the whole world stood still in wonder that night, captivated by the angelic chorus. In truth, it stood still only for those who had “ears to hear” (Matt. 11:15). For the rest, life went on as usual. 

Two thousand years later, we live in an age marked by its own turbulence – rife with cost–of–living crisis, looming global war, and assisted suicide debate. And while our own leaders are no Herods, it very much seems that we will never get a break from history’s cycles of turmoil. 

Thankfully, Christmas reminds us that our hope is not in the fleeting promises of political leaders, nor should we look to them for our salvation (Ps. 146:3). The time to pause is now. God, who works unceasingly in the world, is about to become man so that we may become God. So let us be very still: we might just catch a whisper of the distant hymns of the angelic choir and taste the faint perfume of myrrh and frankincense in the air as the Magi draw near to worship the divine made flesh. 

No Strings Attached 

By Rosie Bromiley 

Only last week our television plunged onto the floor, the screen irrevocably scarred with black static. But thanks to a friend’s kindness, we were offered their unused spare. Dad came home cradling the new screen, wrapped in the ‘swaddling cloths’ of old towels and bubble wrap. He echoed how our friend had threateningly commanded, “Don’t even think of giving me anything for it! No chocolates, no wine, nothing!”  

The parallels are obvious here (though the 24–inch display Toshiba isn’t exactly the Son of God)! But giving to each other at Christmas is where we showcase our feeble yet radical imitations of God’s love. 

Gifts have received bad press this year. Cabinet ministers were criticised for accepting ‘freebies’ from donors including clothing, glasses, and Taylor Swift concert tickets. The implicit source of the outcry: what do these donors get in return? The implications of such a question seemingly reek of corruption.  

Sociologist Marcel Mauss identified human patterns of giving in his 1925 essay The Gift. In short, if I give you something, there is an unspoken obligation for you to return the favour. Of course, this is not just about physical presents. We give our time, our service, our attention. Principles of reciprocity become relational, binding our communities together but not always for good.   

For years, money expert Martin Lewis has been all too aware of the dangers of reciprocity. In The Martin Lewis Money Show Live from 2023, he advised against excessive giving, encouraging viewers to make ‘Christmas pre–NUPs’ (No Unnecessary Presents) saying, “Sometimes the best gift is releasing others from the obligation of having to give to you.”  

How heartbreakingly easy it is to taint what should be kindness. Our cherished connections to each other are susceptible to be stained either by ulterior motives and selfish expectation of reward, or we are crushed by the duty to reciprocate.  

It’s why the incorruptible gift of the Word made flesh is so powerful. Jesus was given to humanity out of the relentless, free–flowing stream of love that pours from the Father to save us from death (John 3:16). He did so without expectation of repayment. No matter how hard we try, we always fall short of fully returning the favour. Christmas is a precious opportunity to defy these patterns of obligation. Instead, we can give with untethered generosity and receive in humility as we mimic an otherworldly love. 

What Hides Behind Christmas? 

By Madeleine Pennington 

Christmas might be the most wonderful time of year, but it can also be a stressful carnival. Your favourite present–to–be is currently someone else’s panic that you haven’t been ‘crossed off the list’ yet. What began as a careful budget is perhaps already a strained overdraft. Every roast turkey represents a farmer’s busiest time of the year. And so many of these burdens are hidden – whether in a lunch break, before sunrise, or before the King’s Speech.  

Much of the work of the first Christmas is also hidden to us now. Some of it has simply been lost to time. I wonder how much of Mary’s pregnancy was over–shadowed by pelvic girdle pain; how Joseph planned for the lost income that would no doubt result from a long trip to Bethlehem; who cleaned up the stable after Jesus arrived.  

Deeper still, though, another kind of work was happening – not made by human hands. The Bible talks of all babies in the womb being “taught… wisdom in that secret place”. Did even Mary fully grasp what extraordinary Wisdom was growing within her? Or did she sometimes doubt the truth of that strange encounter with an angel, many months previously before her belly had started to grow? Was she, in fact, the one being taught in secret? And who else? How were Joseph, the innkeeper, the shepherds, the wise men, all being prepared – no doubt, without knowing it – to encounter the “firstborn of all creation”?  

Christmas is the celebration of something unexpected bursting into sight and touch – the Word becoming flesh – and with it, the recognition that a living God continues to break unexpectedly into our own time and place. But before that, there is preparation. Where, then, might the hidden work of God be in our own lives this year? For, in the words of Rowan Williams,  

He will come, will come,
will come like crying in the night,
like blood, like breaking,
as the earth writhes to toss him free.
He will come like child. 


Interested in this? Share it on social media. Join our monthly e–newsletter to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our Supporter Programme to find out how you can help our work.

]]>
hello@theosthinktank.co.uk (The Theos Team) https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/12/12/christmas-contemplations
How has our evolutionary past shaped us? In conversation with Harvey Whitehouse https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/12/10/how-has-our-evolutionary-past-shaped-us-in-conversation-with-harvey-whitehouse Tue, 10 Dec 2024 11:47:00 +0000 How has our evolutionary past shaped us? In conversation with Harvey Whitehouse

Nick Spencer speaks with Harvey Whitehouse, Chair of Social Anthropology at the University of Oxford. 10/12/2024

The claim that evolution can help us understand, even explain, the modern world and modern mind has not always had a happy history, veering between overclaim and catastrophe. But the opposite idea – that everything is culture and nothing nature – is hardly more convincing.

So, can we threat this needle? Can we have nuanced and realistic understanding of the impact of evolution on us today without going down the rabbit hole of determinism.

So, what impact has evolution had on us – our communities and societies, our morality and our religion.

Purchase Harvey’s book here.

 


Interested in this? Share it on social media. Join our monthly e–newsletter to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our Supporter Programme to find out how you can help our work.

]]>
nick.spencer@theosthinktank.co.uk (Nick Spencer) https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/12/10/how-has-our-evolutionary-past-shaped-us-in-conversation-with-harvey-whitehouse
What is (The) Enlightenment? In conversation with Jonathan Clark https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/12/03/what-is-the-enlightenment-in-conversation-with-jonathan-clark Tue, 03 Dec 2024 11:43:00 +0000 What is (The) Enlightenment? In conversation with Jonathan Clark

Nick Spencer speaks with Historian Jonathan Clark. 03/12/2024

The Enlightenment has become weaponised over recent years. Numerous public figures, not all of them historians, have lined up to state defiantly that it needs protecting from… postmodernity? populism? religion?… take your pick.

But what is – or was – The Enlightenment? What are we being called to defend here? Is The Enlightenment actually a thing? Was it even “a thing” in the first place? And if not, when did we start talking about it, and why?

Purchase a copy of Jonathan’s book here.

 


Interested in this? Share it on social media. Join our monthly e–newsletter to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our Supporter Programme to find out how you can help our work.

]]>
nick.spencer@theosthinktank.co.uk (Nick Spencer) https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/12/03/what-is-the-enlightenment-in-conversation-with-jonathan-clark
Recovering from the Riots https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/12/02/recovering-from-the-riots Mon, 02 Dec 2024 12:59:00 +0000 Recovering from the Riots

Hannah Rich introduces her report exploring the response of local churches to the riots of summer 2024. How can our country and communities heal? 02/11/2024

It is now almost four months, or 120 days, since the most extensive outbreak of riots for a decade swept across England, sparked by the murder of three young girls in Southport. Put another way, that’s 120 daily news cycles that we have moved through since then, the pace of which makes the fractious heat of late July and early August seem like a dim memory on a snowy day in November.  

Our new report Disunited Kingdom? explores the response and contribution of local churches in areas affected by the riots, both immediately and over the longer term in rebuilding communities. In September 2024, we interviewed 16 church leaders in 11 different places across England where there was significant rioting, including locations where hotels and mosques were attacked.  

We found that churches were well–placed to respond in several ways. Firstly, they were able to leverage their strong community networks to work with other faith and activism groups locally. Through these, church leaders were often pre–emptively aware of the coming riots and thus able to offer solidarity and support to mosques and other local targets of violence. 

Secondly, they drew on their institutional relationships with local police and local government. Coupled with their connection to other faith groups, this meant churches were well positioned to share reliable information with their communities and vice versa. 

Thirdly, they maintained a trusted presence in the community, even when this was challenged or threatened by the riots themselves. Where the church could not fulfil its intuitive response of being a place of safety when the buildings were literally at the centre of the violence, communities still found ways of supporting vulnerable congregation members and making their presence felt.  

Lastly, churches used their convening power to draw the community together for vigils, prayer events and moments of much–needed reflection and contemplation in the aftermath of the riots. Several of the clergy stressed that, while finding the words to do so was not easy, they had felt it important to pray for the victims and perpetrators alike, because all are part of the community they serve, and all are loved by God.  

There are lessons to learn from these experiences, about the causes of the riots and what preventative measures might be developed going forward. From this, we offer policy recommendations on cohesion and resilience policy, community engagement, youth provision, education, community spaces, mediation and the longevity of funding structures. 

The report begins with a quote from Paul Lynch’s Booker Prize–winning novel Prophet Song: 

“What is sung by the prophets is but the same song sung across time… that the world is always ending over and over again in one place but not another and that the end of the world is always a local event, it comes to your country and visits your town and knocks on the door of your house and becomes to others but some distant warning, a brief report on the news, an echo of events that has passed into folklore.” 

In order to heal, as communities and as a country, from the events of this summer, it is important that they do not too quickly become “but an echo passed into folklore”. If there is one message that came through in every interview with a church leader in this research, it was the hope that we do not rush to find easy solutions but rather engage in the deep listening needed to genuinely restore fractured lives and communities. Our hope is that this report will equip and encourage policymakers and churches alike to begin that process. 

You can read the full report here.

 


Interested in this? Share it on social media. 

Join our monthly e–newsletter to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our Supporter Programme to find out how you can help our work.

 

]]>
hannah.rich@theosthinktank.co.uk (Hannah Rich) https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/12/02/recovering-from-the-riots
Solidarity and social justice: the left and assisted dying https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/28/solidarity-and-social-justice-the-left-and-assisted-dying Thu, 28 Nov 2024 10:11:00 +0000 Solidarity and social justice: the left and assisted dying

Ian Geary examines how the assisted dying bill does not entirely align with traditional Labour Party values. 28/11/2024

Tomorrow, the House of Commons has the Second Reading of the Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill. The bill has generated much comment, and readers will be well acquainted with the general objections from the bill’s lack of safeguards to bleak evidence from the international context

Some of that comment – especially last weekend – has been around the role of religious faith in objections to the bill. As a Christian, I entirely support the right of believers to comment on this topic, even with explicitly theological reasons should they so wish. However, as a lifelong Labour supporter, I want to reflect not on the religious arguments but on – so to speak – the other end of the spectrum. I want to argue that the bill does not align entirely comfortably with traditional “secular” or “progressive” Labour values, which some in my party profess to adhere to.  

The Labour Party is (putatively) the party of solidarity with the working class, still institutionally true by virtue of its organic link with the trade union movement. It has long been perceived as the party of social justice, with a particular care for the poor and vulnerable. Imperfectly so, certainly, yes but the association exists and this matters. 

The potential consequences of this bill risk undermining this association, leading to an adverse impact on citizens from vulnerable backgrounds, in particular the poor, the disabled, and the working–class. Recent evidence from Canada pointed to the impact of the Medical Assistance in Dying (MAiD) legislation in Ontario and the fact that 29% who were ‘euthanized’ for conditions considered ‘non–terminal’ came from poorer areas, and led some to conclude that – in non–terminal cases – poverty is a material factor leading to this outcome. This has nothing to do with compassionately ending someone’s life to end unbearable suffering. 

When ‘end of life’ becomes an option, the grim reality is that the poor, disabled, mentally ill and elderly risk being coerced into a decision to end their life – as again, Canada’s MAiD programme of euthanasia has shown. In other words, there is a class component at play. 

This approach to the issue invariably draws in the wider discourse around choice. The last time this matter was debated by MPs, ‘choice’ was mentioned 47 times during the debate and Rob Marris MP, the Bill’s sponsor stated that, “there has been a trend in our society, which I support, that if the exercise of a choice does not harm others, in a free society we should allow that choice.” As Nick Spencer observed in an earlier Theos blog, this remains a key argument this time round. “All I’m asking for is that we be given the dignity of choice,” Esther Rantzen has remarked. 

On the surface this sounds reasonable. However, the underlying assumptions behind the statements call for scrutiny. What constitutes harm to others? Does choice always drive the good? And who really has choice? The vulnerable and suffering, or the powerful and professional?  

It is ironic, to put it mildly, for those on the left to draw heavily on the argument from choice given how ‘choice’ is the register of the free market. (In the light of this, it is also ironic that the bill is being debated on ‘Black Friday’, a new festival of, and stimulus for, consumer choice). The market is encroaching everywhere. Choice – posited as an apparently unalloyed agent of consumerism – requires explanation in its given context.  

The choice for some to buy and sell might seem an unalienable right. But the logic of the market does not fit well with the values of the left: solidarity, fellowship, social justice and care irrespective of financial value. We need to consider the necessity of limits to the power of the market so the choices of others, i.e. the powerful, do not impinge on the weaker members of society. In fact, choice is normatively posited as an individual, rather than a collective act. As Bishop Graham Tomlin said is his opinion piece in The Times on 23 November, choice is not the final word on ethical matters, no matter how strong ones convictions might be. 

However strong the popular association between legalising assisted dying and progressive politics may be, it is striking how many prominent Labour figures, such as Gordon Brown and Diane Abbott, have come out against the bill. The fact points to there being another way for the left here, a more authentically ‘Labour’ approach to assisted dying, which is to fund high–quality palliative care and grant it the esteem it deserves. Earlier this year, the All–Party Parliamentary Group on Hospice and End of Life Care in their report, ‘Government Funding for Hospices’ called for strategic action stated that, “the UK Government must produce a national plan to ensure the right funding flows to hospices.” Gordon Brown has made a similar call this past weekend. This is surely the way forward at this juncture. 

As I noted earlier, many people oppose this bill on religious grounds. They have every right to do so. Christian beliefs underpin my approach also. However, the potential drawback with this approach is that it ends up subtly ‘bifurcating’ views on the issue – anti = the religious, along with some fellow travellers; pro = the secular, the progressive, the Left. This is not the case. It needs to be stated that the case for assisted dying is no more intrinsically progressive than that against it is narrowly religious. As a Christian and a Labour party member, I believe the left should reject an approach based simply on ‘choice’ and see its way to protecting the poor, honouring social justice and in ensuring that our fellow citizens, when faced with their life’s final season, are supported towards a good and compassionate death. 


Interested in this? Share it on social media. 

Join our monthly e–newsletter to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our Supporter Programme to find out how you can help our work.

]]>
hello@theosthinktank.co.uk (Ian Geary) https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/28/solidarity-and-social-justice-the-left-and-assisted-dying
Should Britain pay reparations for slavery? In conversation with Michael Banner https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/26/should-britain-pay-reparations-for-slavery-in-conversation-with-michael-banner Tue, 26 Nov 2024 11:39:00 +0000 Should Britain pay reparations for slavery? In conversation with Michael Banner

Nick Spencer speaks with Dean and Fellow of Trinity College, Cambridge, Michael Banner. 26/11/2024

The demand for post–colonial nations to pay reparations to, and for their treatment of, their former colonies has grown increasingly loud over recent years. And although many dismiss the idea as textbook liberal guilt and bandwagon wokery, there are some serious claims behind it.

The topic kicks up some big moral issues. You can’t talk about colonial reparations without working through what you think about moral responsibility, collective identity, and the effect of time on liability, all of which reflect on the underlying question of how we see ourselves.

So, what is the nature of our relationship to other countries, to the past and to whatever moral norms we pride ourselves on?

Purchase Michael’s book here.

 


Interested in this? Share it on social media. Join our monthly e–newsletter to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our Supporter Programme to find out how you can help our work.

]]>
nick.spencer@theosthinktank.co.uk (Nick Spencer) https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/26/should-britain-pay-reparations-for-slavery-in-conversation-with-michael-banner
We need to talk about race and assisted dying https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/26/we-need-to-talk-about-race-and-assisted-dying Tue, 26 Nov 2024 11:17:00 +0000 We need to talk about race and assisted dying

Chine McDonald looks at assisted dying and the underrepresented (and different) perspective of black people. 26/11/2024

Over the past few weeks, I’ve heard arguments from politicians and activists, campaigners, writers and celebrities arguing in favour of assisted dying. I can’t recall many – or indeed any – of them being black. As we approach the vote on assisted dying this week, I’ve been struck by how arguments in favour have held to very white, Western concepts of what it is to be human.  

The fact is, we are much less likely to find black people on the ‘pro’ side.  

Recent data from the Nuffield Council on Bioethics has borne this out. Their poll found that black respondents are much less likely to support assisted dying legislation: just 43 per cent of black people compared to 75 per cent of white respondents were in favour.

Why might black communities be more hesitant about assisted dying legislation? I can hazard some guesses.  

The first is of course that religious views are likely to play a part.  Ethnic minorities in the UK are more likely to belong to a religious tradition, where there are strong views about the sanctity of life. Research from the Nuffield Council found that support for assisted dying legislation was stronger among atheists (82%) compared to Christians (66%), Sikhs (52%) and Muslims (30%).  

Religious views aside, one thing is glaringly obvious to me: for many Black Britons, our sense of self straddles the divide between our cultures of origin and the Western frameworks in which we exist – the liberal versus the communitarian. Assisted dying is one of those topics in which there is a clash of cultures: a clash between the individualistic culture of 21st century Europe, and the interdependent communities from which we hail.  

Many people will be familiar with the southern African term ‘Ubuntu’, which means ‘I am because you are’. In my own community – the Igbo ethnic group of south–eastern Nigeria – there is the concept of the Umunna: the fraternity, the clan or the community. In Igbo tradition, just as in many African communities, there is a strong sense of existing not as an individual , but knitted into a family. One body, with many parts, to allude to the passage in Corinthians.  

The idea that someone who is facing death might not want to be a burden, whether due to illness or old age – as some arguments in favour of assisted dying might suggest – is anathema to West African tradition. You can’t be a burden because you are not a separate entity. You’re part of a whole.  

We live and we breathe and we create families of our own within the context of the wider, interdependent community. We die within that community too. 

Now there are, of course, challenges with this. My generation of British Nigerians will tell you of the frustrations of knowing that what might feel like our business (academic grades, who we marry, where we live, our birth stories) seems to be our whole family’s business – whether that family is here in the UK, or back home.  

Polling from More in Common found that women are on average eight points more likely than men to say that, when it comes to assisted dying legislation, safeguards are essential. I would be fascinated to see how that data differed among black women like me, in particular. 

Recent years have seen much discussion about health disparities for black women in maternity care, where they are four times more likely to die in childbirth and in the year after giving birth than white women.  

The medical profession has not done enough in recent years to allay black women’s fears about giving birth. It would be unsurprising therefore that they might not trust the healthcare system when it comes to assisted dying, either. Can we really trust that – in a stretched NHS, where there are not enough beds, not enough resource to deal with demand – enough has been done to safeguard against racial bias? Can we really be sure that when it comes to someone making a ‘choice’ about whether they live or die, assisted by medical practitioners, that these will be totally free of racial prejudice?  

There are those who would argue that such a view is pure hyperbole – that society has moved on from the days of racial discrimination. But tell that to the 65% of black people who have experienced discrimination by healthcare staff because of their ethnicity.  

And who can blame black communities for not trusting the system?  

We saw during the Covid–19 pandemic how the burden fell disproportionately on ethnic minority communities in the UK, and how some of this was down to lower vaccination uptake among them due to hesitancy about the healthcare system. An article in the British Medical Journal cited institutional racism, historical medical mistreatment of black people and cultural segregation as contributing factors.  

If assisted dying legislation passes, then one can only imagine what might happen among some of these communities. You can see how hesitation about seeking medical help might increase, for fear that one will be ‘recommended’ by two medical professionals for euthanasia. Assisted dying proponents might argue that there will be enough safeguards in place to prevent this, but there has not been enough work to allay fears of black communities thus far. We need more time to discuss the wide–ranging implications and the ripple effects into communities like my own.  

My colleagues have written on ideas around dignity, vulnerability and being a ‘burden’when it comes to the assisted dying debate.  

As Marianne Rozario has written it ‘robs loved ones the time and space to care for relatives that once cared for them… We are denying the time others get to care for us, to love us.’  This is part of the beauty of being from a community whose roots lie in Africa or the Caribbean: the idea of oneness and interdependence is up front and centre in our common life.  

I’ve seen this as I’ve witnessed my own family members rallying together, giving their time and money and prayers to relatives in need; how they have opened their homes and searched deep in their pockets for money to pay for relatives’ healthcare, even when things looked at their bleakest. This doesn’t have to be a close relative, but anyone who might be considered part of the clan, part of the Umunna. I have watched and been amazed by how they have nursed each other through the most ‘undignified’ moments.  

In my tradition, being burdened by others’ vulnerabilities is part and parcel of what it is to be human. Maybe this is exactly what it means to be family.

 


Interested in this? Share it on social media. Join our monthly e–newsletter to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our Supporter Programme to find out how you can help our work.

]]>
hello@theosthinktank.co.uk (Chine McDonald) https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/26/we-need-to-talk-about-race-and-assisted-dying
The Gift of Vulnerability https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/22/the-gift-of-vulnerability Fri, 22 Nov 2024 09:44:00 +0000 The Gift of Vulnerability

As the Assisted Dying bill seeks to minimise vulnerability, Marianne Rozario explores the beauty in being cared for and caring for others. 22/11/2024

Being physically vulnerable is not a subject we often want to talk about. It is not comfortable because today’s society teaches us to aim for physical independence, the ability to look after and care for oneself. You don’t want to be, they say, a “burden” on others.

But what if vulnerability is not a flaw to be overcome, but a display of love? 

We enter the world vulnerable: a baby in need of support, cared primarily by our parents and those closest to us. And in most cases – as most people die a natural death – we leave this world vulnerable, cared for by those who love us, assisted by medical and social support.  

Whilst we must acknowledge that sometimes the “burden” can feel too heavy and vulnerability inadvertently nearly crushes the other, what happens to a society when that vulnerability is denied? Assisted suicide denies our vulnerability, and denies us of a chance to receive and give love.  

The current assisted suicide bill being debated in the UK Parliament may appear to have tight regulations, but nonetheless the logic behind assisted suicide is that vulnerability should be avoided. For it proposes that before we are dependent on others for care, we should have the right to choose to end our life. The problem is that, in doing so, we are retreating from a key moment in which, naturally, we feel the practical loving care of others. Being in a state unable to care for oneself, reliant on others for the most basic actions like washing or feeding, should not be viewed as being a “burden” on society, but rather as allowing oneself to be cared for. It is in being vulnerable, we receive love. 

At the same time, assisted suicide robs loved ones the time and space to care for relatives that once cared for them. We are denying the time others get to care for us; to love us. Anyone who has nursed a dying person knows that, whilst it may be extremely difficult, it is one of the most beautiful and profound moments of life. Like the prayer by Saint Francis of Assisi goes, “for it is in giving that we receive”; it is in caring for the vulnerable, that we receive.  

Those two touchpoints – being in a state of physical vulnerability allowing yourself to be cared for, and being a carer looking after someone who is at their most vulnerable – are when we are closest to knowing love; to touching the face of God, for God is love. This form of love, as agape, is characterised as self–giving, unconditional care for others, and willingness to sacrifice. 

Christianity has something powerful to say about vulnerability. From His birth in a humble manger to His crucifixion on a cross, Jesus showed His willingness to be weak, dependent, and vulnerable in the face of human suffering and imperfection. In an ultimate act of vulnerability, Jesus surrendered himself completely, even to death, for the salvation of humanity. In this sense, Christians embrace vulnerability, especially in times of suffering or sacrifice, as imitating Christ’s redemptive love.  

Moreover, vulnerability is an essential part of Christian community and the call to love one another. Christian thought teaches that, as members of the Body of Christ, it is necessary to bear one another’s burdens, following the commandment of Jesus to love one another.  

Christian understandings of vulnerability challenge us to embrace our own weakness, trust in God’s grace, and offer support to those in need. Vulnerability is, therefore, not a sign of defeat but an invitation to experience deeper intimacy with God and with others.  

A society that denies vulnerability – and actively directs us away from it – is a society that has forgotten what it means to be loved and to love.  


Interested in this? Share it on social media. Join our monthly e–newsletter to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our Supporter Programme to find out how you can help our work. 

]]>
marianne.rozario@theosthinktank.co.uk (Marianne Rozario) https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/22/the-gift-of-vulnerability
What is "woke"? In conversation with Susan Neiman https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/19/what-is-woke-in-conversation-with-susan-neiman Tue, 19 Nov 2024 10:28:00 +0000 What is

Nick Spencer speaks with Einstein Forum in Germany Director, Susan Neiman. 19/11/2024

Depending on who you are, you might understand “woke” to mean “concerned with fundamental human justice”. Alternatively, you might think its means obsessed with identity politics, tribal, angry, and inclined to cancel and censor.

Either way, you probably associate the term with the left. After all, “lefty” and “liberal” and the words most commonly paired with “woke”.

But what if that isn’t the case? What if it’s an oversimplification? What if woke isn’t left and left isn’t woke? Where does that leave the left? And where does it leave wokery?

 


Interested in this? Share it on social media. Join our monthly e–newsletter to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our Supporter Programme to find out how you can help our work.

]]>
nick.spencer@theosthinktank.co.uk (Nick Spencer) https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/19/what-is-woke-in-conversation-with-susan-neiman
Debating Assisted Dying: Lessons from Canada https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/18/debating-assisted-dying-lessons-from-canada Mon, 18 Nov 2024 13:46:00 +0000 Debating Assisted Dying: Lessons from Canada

John Milloy gives us an insight into the realities of legalising assisted dying from Canada. What lessons can the UK learn? 18/11/2024

How did assisted dying become so commonplace in Canada? Like the old quote about bankruptcy, it seemed to happen slowly and then all at once. 

In 2016, in response to a Supreme Court decision, the Canadian Parliament passed a law allowing those whose death was “reasonably foreseeable” to seek assisted dying. The law was later broadened in response to another court decision to include those whose death was not imminent but who had a “grievous and irremediable” condition.  

That was not the end. The province of Quebec recently allowed advance requests where someone diagnosed with an illness like dementia can agree to be euthanized in the future once they have declined and can no longer give consent. And although the government has promised to extend Medical Assistance in Dying (MAiD) as it is known in Canada, to those with mental illness, they have delayed its implementation until 2027. 

Despite being initially presented as a procedure of last resort, the rate of increase in Canadians accessing MAiD is the fastest in the world.  

Does the Canadian experience hold any lessons for the UK? I am a retired Canadian politician teaching public ethics at an Ontario university and I would never be bold enough to advise UK citizens about how they should decide this issue. The Canadian experience might, however, help inform your debate. 

This is about more than individual freedom  

Unlike other emotional debates, such as the one over same–sex marriage, assisted dying never prompted the type of heated discussion in Canada that might have been expected. Many saw it as simply an issue of personal choice. Few seemed to question what type of society we were creating. Was it appropriate to create a system where doctors or nurse practitioners routinely help those desperate to die kill themselves? We also rarely discussed whether assisted dying was the right response to suffering, decline in quality of life, or a perceived loss of dignity. 

This was a significant oversight. Studies show that Canadians accessing MAiD seek the procedure for reasons that often go beyond immediate pain, including: the inability to participate fully in daily living or pursue meaningful activity; loss of control of bodily functions; fear of being a burden; or even because of loneliness.  

Instead of simply offering assisted dying, did we need to rethink concepts like “meaning” and “dignity”? One of the few groups to raise those questions in Canada were persons with disabilities who continue to challenge assisted dying as a response to physical limitations or fear of being a burden.  

Might assisted dying become a response to underfunding in our healthcare and social assistance systems? During the initial debate in Canada, such questions were dismissed as alarmist. But since then, we have seen studies and media stories about individuals accessing the procedure because of poverty or the inability to find medical treatment. Perhaps most concerning, about one third of Canadians surveyed support poverty as a reason to seek assisted dying. 

Once the procedure is in place, further discussion is difficult 

As someone working in the field of public ethics, I found the original debate over assisted dying different from discussing other controversial issues. While the procedure remained hypothetical, concerns could be freely raised without causing offense. Then the law was passed and the circle of those with a loved one who had accessed MAiD began to grow. An air of defensiveness began to take hold, and assisted dying joined the ranks of those issues that progressive people don’t question. 

That point became apparent to me when I witnessed a Member of Parliament correct someone for using the term “assisted suicide”: “We need to call it Medical Assistance in Dying”, she said, “so as not to stigmatize those who access it.” Allowing a narrow law to be passed and taking a “wait and see” approach won’t be doing yourself any favours. 

Limiting it to only those who are dying will not end the debate  

Canada’s original decision to limit MAiD to those whose death was “reasonably foreseeable” didn’t end the debate. Why only those at the end of their life? What about those who live daily with intolerable suffering with no relief in sight? What about individuals with severe mental health issues? Shouldn’t those diagnosed with dementia be allowed advance consent to access the procedure in the future?  

It was difficult to respond as we hadn’t worked through why MAiD was only limited to the dying. As Nick Spencer pointed out in a recent Theos blog post, “unless there is an underpinning philosophical logic” behind who can and can’t access assisted dying, it is difficult to argue against its expansion.  

When a lower court ruled that the law must be broadened, the Canadian government didn’t appeal the decision even though many experts felt there were legal grounds. Because we hadn’t firmly established why only the dying were eligible, there was a sense that the law’s expansion was inevitable.  

Where will it end? The Canadian government is considering offering advance requests nationwide. Will the procedure be extended to those with mental illness in 2027? Many Canadians oppose the idea including the opposition Conservatives who are ahead in the polls, but the absence of clear reasoning as to why any category of suffering should be excluded has made debate difficult. 

Conclusion 

There is considerable support for MAiD in Canada. It has, however, changed us as a nation and not necessarily for the better. I often ask myself whether it has weakened our collective sense of responsibility to support and encourage those who feel their lives have lost meaning. The speed with which we made assisted dying part of our culture has me feel more than a modicum of remorse. I hope that the people of the UK consider all the implications before moving forward.  


Interested in this? Share it on social media. Join our monthly e–newsletter to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our Supporter Programme to find out how you can help our work.

]]>
hello@theosthinktank.co.uk (John Milloy) https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/18/debating-assisted-dying-lessons-from-canada
Beasts of Burden https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/14/beasts-of-burden Thu, 14 Nov 2024 11:38:00 +0000 Beasts of Burden

The feeling of being a burden fuels the assisted dying debate. Nick Spencer reminds us that caring for each other is part of being human. 14/11/2024

Kim Leadbeater’s long–awaited assisted dying bill has been published. The conversation can now start in earnest. 

That conversation will, quite rightly, encompass multiple details… the funding available for palliative care, the medical accuracy of relevant diagnoses, the legal and regulatory frameworks in Canada, Oregon, and elsewhere. Many of these are explored in a new book – talk about good timing! – published by Open University Press on The Reality of Assisted Dying, and edited by Ilora Finlay and Julian Hughes, to whom I spoke for this week’s episode of Reading Our Times.  

Underlying many of these details, however, is the question of how we understand ourselves. This question also has many different perspectives or dimensions to it. What is a human being worth? How far should our autonomy extend? What is the nature of our responsibility to one another? Wherein resides the dignity to which we are all committed? These are the anthropological foundations on which our ethical towers are constructed, upon which we hang our legislative programmes. What we say about ourselves ultimately informs where we go as a society. 

One of the things we say about ourselves, and particularly in this debate, is that we don’t want to be a burden on our loved ones. The line is repeated constantly and plays a role even in jurisdictions like Oregon, which have managed to avoid sliding down the slippery slope with the speed and eagerness of Canada. A 2016 report found that almost 50% of patients in Oregon whose lives were ended under the Oregon Death with Dignity Act cited “being a burden” as one of their concerns. (Finlay and Hughes: 17) 

“Burden” is a dangerous word, one that morally colours just as much as it describes. The word literally means “a heavy load” but is only really used to describe the kind of load that is too heavy or, at least, the kind of load we would be better off without. No–one says, “she’s just such a burden to us” and means something positive or enviable from it. In this way, introducing the word “burden” into our conversation about assisted dying does the thinking for us. If you accept that we shouldn’t be a burden to our loved ones, job done. 

But we shouldn’t accept it, because we are a burden to those around us, and we should be. More precisely, the closer your ties to another human being, the greater the chance that that person will be a burden to you at some point in your relationship, just as you will to them. That’s not wrong. It’s part of being human. 

Colleagues are on the periphery. If you do have a colleague who is consistently slope–shouldered, sooner or later they run out of road. But even in the working environment (or, at least, the happy, well–functioning working environment) there are times in which you will carry others’ loads, working late, say, to help them with a deadline or to cover for them as they deal with a personal problem. That burden–bearing is not a permanent feature of the workplace and is usually expected to be reciprocal rather than simply altruistic, but it is there, nonetheless. 

Friends are closer. Superficially, they are the fun part of life. Holiday, pubs, parties, dinner tables: that’s where friends belong. But close friends, as opposed to acquaintances, go beyond that, and there are times when you need them, and they need you. That need can be a burden, demanding time, energy, or money that you might otherwise not choose to offer. But offer it you do, for no more reason than they are your friend. 

And then there is family… well, does it need to be said? The exhausted, bleary eyes of sleep–deprived new parents… the forced smile and raw–handed applause as mum and dad sit through the third nativity play in a week … the emotional bruising they endure during adolescence… the late–night counsel we offer to siblings… the visits to elderly or lonely relatives… it goes on. These are burdens, heavy loads. And we bear them. We bear them because that is how we would like to be treated. We bear them because we feel it is simply the right thing to do. We bear them because we sense this is what makes us more deeply human. We bear them because they are signs of love and without love we are nothing. “Carry each other’s burdens, and in this way you will fulfil the law of Christ.” 

Let’s not get too misty eyed here. Sometimes the burden becomes unbearable, so heavy that it will crush us. Martyrdom is no triumph here, if only because if we collapse under the weight of the burden, the person we are trying to help collapses with us. There are times in life when we cannot cope with what we are being called to carry, and we need others to carry with it us. First family, then friends, neighbours, associations, communities, and ultimately the state (though the modern world has not always preserved that order): we need these institutions to help us with those unbearable burdens. 

But that does not change the fundamental picture that humans are here to “bear one another’s burdens”. We are born to carry one another. “If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles.” We are natural beasts of burden. If we pretend otherwise, if we think the burden is a distraction from who we are – rather than an example of who we are – we will become less than who we are.  

 


Interested in this? Share it on social media. Join our monthly e–newsletter to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our Supporter Programme to find out how you can help our work.

]]>
nick.spencer@theosthinktank.co.uk (Nick Spencer) https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/14/beasts-of-burden
Befriending the KKK and Dismantling Racism with Daryl Davis https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/13/befriending-the-kkk-and-dismantling-racism-with-daryl-davis Wed, 13 Nov 2024 11:56:00 +0000 Befriending the KKK and Dismantling Racism with Daryl Davis

In collaboration with the Larger Us podcast, Elizabeth Oldfield speaks with musician and activist Daryl Davis. 13/11/2024

Daryl Davis shares a unique perspective on the motivations behind white supremacy and what it takes to see the gradual transformation of KKK members.

Hosts Elizabeth Oldfield and Alex Evans, delve into the extraordinary story of Daryl Davis, a Blues musician who has spent decades befriending and dialoguing with members of the Ku Klux Klan. Driven by a deep curiosity to understand the roots of racism, Daryl has taken an unconventional approach, choosing empathy and open communication over confrontation.

Discover the profound impact one person can have in bridging the divide and fostering greater understanding between communities.

If you enjoy episodes of The Sacred don’t forget to hit subscribe to be notified whenever we release an episode!

 


Interested in this? Share it on social media. Join our monthly e–newsletter to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our Supporter Programme to find out how you can help our work.

]]>
hello@theosthinktank.co.uk (Elizabeth Oldfield) https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/13/befriending-the-kkk-and-dismantling-racism-with-daryl-davis
Assisted Dying: What's really at stake? In conversation with Ilora Finlay and Julian Hughes https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/12/assisted-dying-whats-really-at-stake-in-conversation-with-ilora-finlay-and-julian-hughes Tue, 12 Nov 2024 05:00:00 +0000 Assisted Dying: What's really at stake? In conversation with Ilora Finlay and Julian Hughes

Nick Spencer speaks with Crossbench Peer and honorary professor of palliative medicine at Cardiff University, Ilora Finlay, and former professor of philosophy and old age psychiatry, Julian Hughes. 12/11/2024

Assisted Dying is back on the legislative agenda, with parliament voting on it this autumn. It is a profound and contentious debate about which good and well–meaning people can and do disagree deeply.

What is really at stake here? Apart from the obvious, the debate kicks up some profound and difficult questions about most important ideas concerning human life.

For example, how far should we respect people’s autonomy and choice? What constitutes a meaningful life? And what is the meaning of human dignity?

Buy a copy of Ilora and Julian’s book ‘The Reality of Assisted Dying’ here.

 


Interested in this? Share it on social media. Join our monthly e–newsletter to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our Supporter Programme to find out how you can help our work.

]]>
nick.spencer@theosthinktank.co.uk (Nick Spencer) https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/12/assisted-dying-whats-really-at-stake-in-conversation-with-ilora-finlay-and-julian-hughes
Super Bowl Election https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/07/super-bowl-election Thu, 07 Nov 2024 09:46:00 +0000 Super Bowl Election

Following the 2024 US Election, Paul Bickley examines how American politics is turning into an existential battle between good and evil. 07/11/2024

Way back on 11 February the Kansas City Chiefs and San Francisco 49ers met at Allegiant Stadium in Las Vegas for the 2024 Super Bowl. For those not in the know, the Kansas City Chiefs claimed victory in a dramatic overtime finish when Patrick Mahomes connected with wide receiver Mecole Hardman for the decisive touchdown. They won 25–22, and so secured their second consecutive Super Bowl win. The halftime show contained all the usual glitz, showbiz and commercialism. TV coverage ran an allegedly funny Dunkin’ Donuts advert starring Jennifer Lopez and Ben Affleck. (Sadly, the joke didn’t last – the couple separated and filed for divorce in April.)  

Nine months later and the world is digesting the results of the US presidential (and other!) elections. This every–four–year event is like a political version of the Super Bowl. Large crowds, lots of money, and celebrities – often the same celebrities – endorsing the ‘product’ of this or that campaign. Two teams facing off on the biggest stage imaginable. No prizes for second place.    

American politics increasingly looks like a piling up on a series of binaries. It’s not just Republican vs Democrat, left vs Right. It’s urban vs rural; coasts versus flyover; pro–life vs pro–choice; and, in this election, men vs women. For the winning team – elation, power, and the opportunity to shape America and the world. For the other, a billion–dollar failure. Losers.   

Of course, religion plays a part in American democracy. By now we are familiar with the ways groups tend to break: white evangelicals for the Republicans (according to the exit polls of the Washington Post, making up around 1 in 5 votes and breaking 81% for Trump).  All other religious groups, taken together, lean Democrat, with Harris securing 58% of their votes. In this constitutionally secular democracy, both sides are still ‘going to church’.   

But there is something deeper at work, which should also be called religious. A Manichaean spirit has taken hold of American politics, perhaps also American society at large. This is not any anachronistic claim of the revival of the long dead religion of the prophet Mani, but it is something the resembles it. Manichaeism, a kind of mashup of Christianity, Zoroastrianism, and Buddhism that emerged in 3rd century Persia, taught that existence was a struggle between two equal and opposite forces of good and evil, light and darkness. Through ascetic practices of prayer, fasting, and confession the ‘elect’ could help release the light from its imprisonment in matter, which Manichaeans considered inherently evil.  

Not that different from Christianity, you might think. Indeed, Manichaeism was, for a time, an influential Christian–adjacent sect in the Roman Empire. But the church and its theologians more and more critiqued and distanced themselves from it. Finally, the Roman Empire suppressed it (as did the Sassanian Empire, where Mani is thought to have died in prison). Famously, Augustine of Hippo was a Manichaean until his conversion at the age of 31. He too became an ardent critic of his former religion. 

All this seems like a very long way from Washington DC, but I’ve been reminded of the Manichaeans as political discourse has begun to co–mingle with contemporary ‘conspirituality’, and as many of us have felt the temptation to cast politics as an existential battle between good and evil. We are too apt to see campaigns and elections as the purgative process whereby light will be released from the enmeshing darkness. As anyone watching will have realized, both camps in this election have indulged in this. If you were to believe the utterances of the opposing campaigns , this was a Super Bowl runoff between the Communists and the Nazis – two words which in America are equal and opposite evils, depending who you’re talking to.  

Why? Partly because with less social mixing, and more social media echo chambers, it is easier to believe that your political opponents are not only wrong but stupid, and not only stupid but evil. Partly its tactical, yet another way to whip up the base or get the vote out. Ultimately, however, it is partly because both sides believe it. Last Sunday, Kamala Harris spoke at a church in Detroit, Michigan:  

We face a real question: what kind of country do we want to live in? What kind of country do we want for our children and our grandchildren? A country of chaos fear and hate or a country of freedom justice and compassion?… Let us turn the page and write the next chapter of our history. A chapter grounded in a divine plan big enough to encompass all of our dreams. A divine plan strong enough to heal division. A divine plan bold enough to embrace possibility: God’s plan. 

I admire Harris’ effort to appeal to religious voters in a language that would make sense to them. Churlish though it may be, I can’t help but notice the weaknesses of the implicit theology of statements like this. I would be surprised if God’s plan did = Democratic Party platform, just as I would if it was the Republican Party platform. If it did, then God’s plan is now in tatters, and his purposes junked by swing voters in Pennsylvania and Michigan.  

One of Augustine’s complaints about this belief system was that God for the Manichaeans was not God at all. He was limited by matter and darkness. Somehow, it is God and goodness and light that needed to be saved. He also disliked the way Manicheans gave equal ontological weight to evil. For Christians, even those that do find themselves at a bleak moment in history, we are not in an existential Super Bowl contest between good and evil. The powers, said St Paul, have been disarmed and defeated. Christians cannot be Manichaeans.  

The pathology in American politics is not the evil of either side, but the tendency of both sides to elevate their politics to the level of cosmic struggle. They overestimate the transformative potential, or wisdom, of their own victories. They will see their defeats as moral failures. The worst are full of passionate intensity, as Yeats wrote. But the best must avoid this Manichaean heresy and hold out for the complicated middle ground of democracy as a means to work slowly, often indirectly, towards the common good.   


Interested in this? Share it on social media. Join our monthly e–newsletter to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our Supporter Programme to find out how you can help our work.

]]>
paul.bickley@theosthinktank.co.uk (Paul Bickley) https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/07/super-bowl-election
Porn, Feminism and Misogyny in the Media with Sarah Ditum https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/06/porn-feminism-and-misogyny-in-the-media-with-sarah-ditum Wed, 06 Nov 2024 05:00:00 +0000 Porn, Feminism and Misogyny in the Media with Sarah Ditum

Elizabeth Oldfield speaks with writer and columnist Sarah Ditum. 06/11/2024

Sarah Ditum delves into her journey through the strands of feminism, the misogynistic “upskirt decade”, the invasive celebrity culture of the late 90s and 2000s that often exploited and shamed young women, and her views on the role of pornography and its impact on mainstream culture.

Sarah is a critic and columnist for The Times and The Sunday Times, and author of the book “Toxic: Women and the Noughties.”

This wide–ranging conversation provides a nuanced look at the evolution of feminist thought, the power of media narratives, and the personal experiences that have informed Sarah Ditum’s worldview.

If you enjoy episodes of The Sacred don’t forget to hit subscribe to be notified whenever we release an episode.

 


Interested in this? Share it on social media. Join our monthly e–newsletter to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our Supporter Programme to find out how you can help our work.

]]>
hello@theosthinktank.co.uk (Elizabeth Oldfield) https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/06/porn-feminism-and-misogyny-in-the-media-with-sarah-ditum
Can poetry save us? In conversation with Charles Taylor https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/05/can-poetry-save-us-in-conversation-with-charles-taylor Tue, 05 Nov 2024 05:00:00 +0000 Can poetry save us? In conversation with Charles Taylor

Nick Spencer speaks with Professor emeritus at McGill University, Charles Taylor. 05/11/2024

For many people, many of whom would not call themselves religious or even spiritual, poetry is somehow able to enchant, to inspire, to heal– to give them a glimpse of connection, of transcendence that transforms their life.

Particularly today, in “A secular age” in the West, it is poetry and indeed the arts more widely that often boast the greatest ability convey that sense of connection and transcendence that seems so important and hard–wired in humans.

What is going on here? How does it work? And what does it say about us as human beings?

Buy a copy of Charles Taylor’s book ‘How the World Made the West’ here.

 


Interested in this? Share it on social media. Join our monthly e–newsletter to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our Supporter Programme to find out how you can help our work. 

]]>
nick.spencer@theosthinktank.co.uk (Nick Spencer) https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/05/can-poetry-save-us-in-conversation-with-charles-taylor
"My life, my choice" https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/01/my-life-my-choice Fri, 01 Nov 2024 11:51:00 +0000

Nick Spencer critiques the idea that ‘dignity of choice’ is the most compelling moral argument in the assisted dying debate. 01/11/2024

Esther Rantzen put it best. Not long after Kim Leadbeater announced her private members’ bill, the former TV star was interviewed by Amol Rajan on BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.  

“All I’m asking for is that we be given the dignity of choice,” she said, using a telling phrase that I have italicised here. “If I decide my own life is not worth living, please may I ask for help to die. It’s a choice.” She continued, “I don’t want to pressure anyone either way…it’s the most personal choice…like whether or not to have a baby… I’m asking for choice.” 

This is a very widespread sentiment. I have had two conversations in the last week alone with people who were indignant, bordering on furious, that I was prepared to argue against the right to choose the manner of death, especially when it came to someone suffering from a painful and incurable illness. 

As noted in a previous blog, I do waver a bit on this issue but, ironically, it is when I hear Esther Rantzen’s words, or words like them, that I am nudged most decisively away from supporting any change in the law.  

On the surface, the argument sounds reasonable, indeed obvious. We have been well trained by decades of consumerism to hear ‘choice’ as not only as axiomatic but as morally momentous. If my sentence begins ‘I choose’, you are going to need a damn good reason to deny me. Moreover, the phrase familiar from the abortion debate – “my body, my choice” – so often repeated, so rarely interrogated, so automatically assumed unanswerable, has softened us up for the assisted dying one. “My life, my choice.” 

A little reflection shows that “my body my choice” is not really a moral argument at all, let alone an inherently persuasive one. “My body my choice” – really? Does that apply to sex selective abortion? To self–harm? To suicide? So it is with the argument from choice in this debate concerning the other end of life.  

Look at Esther Rantzen’s words again. “If I decide my own life is not worth living, please may I ask for help to die. It’s a choice.” Seriously? If you are like me, there will have been a few times in your life that you have felt – deeply felt – that your life is not worth living. I know I am, by nature, a melancholic soul but I doubt whether I am that exceptional in this. I can only thank God that I wasn’t living in Canada at the time where MAiD (Medical Assistance in Dying) is now the fifth commonest cause of death. 

Ah! respond those in favour of the Leadbeater bill. That may be so. But that is not what is on offer in this bill. On the contrary, the Leadbeater regulations are highly restrictive, and will remain so.  

But they will not remain so, because they cannot remain so. If we really do intend to prioritize ‘autonomy’ in the way that advocates of assisted dying do – if we do want to give people like Esther Rantzen the “dignity of choice” – we no longer have any grounds to deny it to people who argue – with great reason, cogency and unassailable self–knowledge – that they have come to the conclusion that their life is not worth living, and do not want to go on living, and that they want the dignity of choice too. If you put all your eggs in that philosophical basket, you have no tools left to argue against that view (and if you come across a more mixed metaphor today, you should treasure it). 

Or, put another way, law is not positivist. It cannot exist solely on the basis of judicial decisions. It needs moral and philosophical ground beneath it. It is all well and good to propose tight restrictions for any incoming legislation, but unless there is an underpinning philosophical logic to them, they will not hold. You will find yourself on a tilting slope – with only the slightest of gradients, perhaps, but tilting nonetheless – without a brake to reach for.  

It is no accident that Leadbeater’s bill has already been criticised by some for being too tight. It is no accident that restrictions have been gradually loosened in Belgium and the Netherlands. It is no accident that Quebec has just this week become the first province in Canada to allow people to make advance requests for medical assistance in dying (MAiD), meaning that “a person with an illness that will eventually leave them unable to grant consent can arrange to receive a medically assisted death when their condition worsens, be it months or years in the future.” 

It is no accident because there is a perfectly consistent, cogent and coherent logic here. If we think dignity means choice, this is where we must end up. However alluring it may sound, however it is dressed up as compassion, and however much it is the de facto basis of a consumerist society like our own, the fact is that choice is not enough. 

Theos’ new report, ’The Meaning of Dignity: what’s beneath the assisted dying debate’ can be read here.

 


Interested in this? Share it on social media. Join our monthly e–newsletter to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our Supporter Programme to find out how you can help our work.

]]>
nick.spencer@theosthinktank.co.uk (Nick Spencer) https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/01/my-life-my-choice
In Sync With The Sun https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/30/in-sync-with-the-sun Wed, 30 Oct 2024 11:42:00 +0000 In Sync With The Sun

A new animation by Emily Downe exploring what happens when we disturb life’s natural rhythms. How do we understand our worth in a culture that idolises productivity. 30/10/2024

This short film explores the rhythms of waking and resting embedded in the natural world. The film explores the impact of productivity boosting artificial technologies on our world. We can do more, make more, profit more, but without boundaries. But what do we lose when we pursue limitless productivity?  

Interested? This animation is part of wider research by Theos on productivity. For more, click here  

Script for In Sync with the Sun  

The war against sleep began when artificial light broke into the night. It’s an absurdity, a bad habit. ‘There is really no reason why men should go to bed at all’, Thomas Edison said. Be productive. Rest is for the dead. 

Slack jawed, drifting into enchantment and mystery,  

The unlimited mind  

Playtime  

A waste of time. Every living thing thrives in cycles of activity and rest,  

In Sync with the sun. 

Light, dark, sleep, wake, rest, work, play. But for us, artificial light took over the night. 

Out of sync. 

Marching to the beat of a different drum. Now we decide when the day is done. It never is. Prove your worth. Every second counts. Rest less, burn out. Shut down. Artificial light wasn’t enough. Enter: artificial minds. Limitless machines, relentlessly efficient, A constant bloodless pulse. In the race for productivity, artificial minds may easily win. But what is lost? Creating, caring, giving  

Computes productivity: 0. But to us, we see true value. You’re not a machine. Light, dark, sleep, wake, rest, work, play,  

Repaint the boundary line,  

Make yourself at home. The only thing that can stay awake is not awake at all. 

About the Productivity Project  

“Productivity isn’t everything, but in the long run, it is almost everything” claimed the economist Paul Krugman. Throughout the twentieth century, productivity improved dramatically across the developed world in a greater increase than in the previous 2000 years. Driven by life changing technologies, such as electricity, combustion engines, and phones, living standards increased sevenfold. But since the 2008 financial crisis, despite computerisation and the internet, productivity growth in many countries has been low, static or even, in the case of Japan, falling.  

Is faltering productivity growth a policy problem to be fixed, or is our obsession with productivity (both economic and cultural) an unhelpful measure of true human flourishing?  

In this stream of work, Theos explores the changing pressures on (and demands of) our society to argue that we must balance productivity against other measures of success, especially in an increasingly service–based economy and an age of climate crisis. We particularly explore the natural limits of human attention and the planet we call home, as well as the likely impacts of artificial intelligence, to ask: what does a productive human really look like?  

Film Credits  

Written, directed and designed by Emily Downe 

Animated by Emily Downe and Martha Halliday  

Music and sound by Jan Willem de With 

Additional sounds by Richard Johnsen  

Produced by Theos with thanks to The Fetzer institute

 


Interested in this? Share it on social media. Join our monthly e–newsletter to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our Supporter Programme to find out how you can help our work. 

]]>
emily.ikoshi@theosthinktank.co.uk (Emily Ikoshi) https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/30/in-sync-with-the-sun
Scandals, Faith Crises & the Spiritual Realm with Rod Dreher https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/30/scandals-faith-crises-the-spiritual-realm-with-rod-dreher Wed, 30 Oct 2024 05:00:00 +0000 Scandals, Faith Crises & the Spiritual Realm with Rod Dreher

Elizabeth Oldfield speaks with writer and editor Rod Dreher. 30/10/2024


Rod Dreher and Elizabeth Oldfield delve into Rod’s journalism of the Catholic sex abuse scandal, converting to Eastern Orthodoxy, his views on immigration and Donald Trump and supernatural experiences.

Chapters

00:00 What is Sacred to you? Rod Dreher answers 

06:28 Family, Place, and the Weight of Expectations 

10:16 Moral Foundations and Personal Crisis 

17:54 The Benedict Option: A Call to Intentional Living 

26:25 The Journey to Orthodoxy and the Search for Transcendence 

30:39 Living in Wonder: Rediscovering the Enchanted World 

33:03 The Unseen Battle: Spiritual Awareness 

36:44 Encounters with the Divine: Transformative Stories 

39:41 Spiritual climate 

43:03 Conservative politics, Trump and faith 

48:42 The willingness to suffer for your beliefs

 


Interested in this? Share it on social media. Join our monthly e–newsletter to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our Supporter Programme to find out how you can help our work.

]]>
hello@theosthinktank.co.uk (Elizabeth Oldfield) https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/30/scandals-faith-crises-the-spiritual-realm-with-rod-dreher
How Did the World Make the West? In conversation with Josephine Quinn https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/29/how-did-the-world-make-the-west-in-conversation-with-josephine-quinn Tue, 29 Oct 2024 05:00:00 +0000 How Did the World Make the West? In conversation with Josephine Quinn

Nick Spencer speaks with Professor of Ancient History, Josephine Quinn. 29/10/2024

About 30 years ago, the American political philosopher Samuel Huntington wrote a hugely influential book entitled The clash of civilizations in which he predicted that the ideological wars of the 20th century would give way to civilisational ones in the 21st.

The book drew criticism for the way it talked about “civilizations” as if they were hard edged and obviously identifiable things. Because the general idea of civilizations is a relatively recent one, and if we peer into the mists of time, we can make out the many streams and tributaries that have poured into the West over the centuries to make it what it is.

So, where exactly is our civilisation, “the West”? How has it been shaped by “other” cultures? And what does that mean for us today?

Buy a copy of Josephine Quinn’s book ‘How the World Made the West’ here.

 


Interested in this? Share it on social media. Join our monthly e–newsletter to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our Supporter Programme to find out how you can help our work.

]]>
nick.spencer@theosthinktank.co.uk (Nick Spencer) https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/29/how-did-the-world-make-the-west-in-conversation-with-josephine-quinn
Decision by heart string: a reflection on the assisted dying debate https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/24/decision-by-heart-string-a-reflection-on-the-assisted-dying-debate Thu, 24 Oct 2024 16:11:00 +0100 Decision by heart string: a reflection on the assisted dying debate

Nick Spencer on the role of emotive stories in the assisted dying debate, and what role they should play. 24/10/2024

“I have to confess to you I’m finding the conversation a distressing one because of [its] tendency to look away from the situation and to deny the reality.” 

So spoke Kit Malthouse MP during a discussion about assisted dying debate, run by the Religion Media Centre last week, in which I participated.  

He was responding to points that I and others had made about some of the more theoretical issues underlying the debate: dignity, choice, social responsibility, religious duty, and the like.  

His point, made with a little frustration but no rudeness, was that discussion about these matters is all well and good but fails to face the grim reality of people dying in despair and pain. “People are already killing themselves”, he explained. “Several hundred a year are blowing their brains out, taking overdoses… deciding to refuse treatment and starving themselves to death because they’re in such pain and agony.” The “willingness to look away from the horror story of the situation,” he concluded, “is quite distressing.” 

A subsequent speaker did pick him up on this. Given that people who campaign against assisted dying usually support – indeed base many of their arguments on – palliative care, they can hardly be accused of looking away at the moment of people’s suffering.  

But Malthouse’s comment did, albeit inadvertently, highlight one very important dimension of the assisted dying debate that merits attention.  

Those arguing for assisted dying have many upsetting stories on which they can draw. Estimates of the number of people receiving palliative care but who still die in pain range vary. One study from 2019 calculated that of those who die in a hospice, an average of 13.4% experience some level of unrelieved pain (1.4% not at all relieved, and 12% only partially relieved). It’s an uncomfortable fact for those who argue against assisted dying and is made all the more so by the often tragic, and sometimes lurid, stories of people dying in despair, as well as pain, at the end of the life. I am, on balance, against legalising assisted dying (for reasons to be explored in later posts and in the forthcoming Theos report, The Meaning of Dignity). However, after having listened to such stories, I seriously teeter on the brink of changing my mind. Do I really want to be one of those people responsible for others dying in this way? 

The problem with reaching the decision this way, however – dragged over to one side by the power of heart strings tugged – is that different stories, equally tragic, equally lurid, can easily drag you back to the other.  

Take the story of the 71–year–old man from Canada who was told he was terminally ill with end–stage Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease (COPD), offered Medical Assistance in Dying (MAiD), and euthanized within 48 hours of his first assessment but who, it was discovered on autopsy, did not in fact have COPD. Or the story of the 29–year–old Dutch woman who was granted euthanasia on the grounds of unbearable mental suffering, despite being in good physical health. Or the story of the Canadian man in his 40s with inflammatory bowel disease, socially isolated and addicted to opioids and alcohol, who was told about MAiD during a psychiatric assessment and driven to the location where he received an assisted death, without his family being consulted. If one set of awful stories pull you on to one side, another set will pull you back. 

There are responses to such stories. For example, those in favour of assisted dying will say, yes, there are tragic and upsetting stories, but we can build in safeguards against such slippage. We don’t have to end up like Canada.  

On the other side, those against it will say, yes, there are tragic and upsetting stories, but palliative medicine is good despite being chronically underfunded. Just think what palliative care might achieve if only we, as a society, decided seriously to invest in it. That was more or less the substance of Health Secretary Wes Streeting’s recent intervention against the bill.  

And then there are responses to these responses. You probably already know them. More to the point, you can probably already guess the point I’m trying to make herе. 

Tragic, upsetting stories are relevant to this discussion. They are part of the ‘legitimate evidence base’, if that isn’t too cold a term. We should not, we cannot, “look away from the horror story of the situation” as Kit Malthouse rightly said. 

But nor should we allow such stories to make up our minds, as he was implying. Just as we cannot ignore the practical “evidence” – whether that is people dying in despair or being euthanised for being depressed or (not actually) ill – nor can we ignore the principles through which such evidence is interpreted. Questions of dignity, autonomy, responsibility and the like may seem, to some, unnecessarily abstract, but they are an essential part of the debate. 

All this may seem obvious, but I fear it needs saying. It is precisely because personal tragedy makes such good journalistic copy, that there is a real and present danger that the debate will be decided by those who can tug at the heart strings most successfully. That, in itself, would be a tragedy. We owe it to ourselves to think about this issue, as well as just to feel it.

 

 


Interested in this? Share it on social media. Join our monthly e–newsletter to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our Supporter Programme to find out how you can help our work.

]]>
nick.spencer@theosthinktank.co.uk (Nick Spencer) https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/24/decision-by-heart-string-a-reflection-on-the-assisted-dying-debate
Father James Martin on Chastity, Controversy & Building Bridges with LGBTQ Catholics https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/23/father-james-martin-on-chastity-controversy-building-bridges-with-lgbtq-catholics Wed, 23 Oct 2024 05:00:00 +0100 Father James Martin on Chastity, Controversy & Building Bridges with LGBTQ Catholics

Elizabeth Oldfield speaks with writer and Catholic priest, Fr James Martin. 23/10/2024


Father James Martin and our host, Elizabeth Oldfield discuss his journey to becoming a Catholic priest and the Jesuit motto of finding God in everything. We spoke about the difficulty of living a life of chastity, becoming a vocal advocate for LGBTQ inclusion within the Catholic Church and navigating backlash as a public figure.

Purchase Fr James Martin’s new book ‘Come Forth’ here: https://www.eden.co.uk/christian-book…

Chapters

00:00 What is Sacred to you? Father James Martin replies 
00:54 Understanding the Sacred
02:50 The Role of Discernment in Life
05:46 Childhood Influences and Early Life
09:08 Transitioning from Business to Jesuit Life
11:56 Exploring Religious Orders
14:51 Community Living and Its Challenges
18:10 Chastity is difficult
20:05 Having a public voice
23:00 Advocacy for the LGBTQ Community
27:16 Spiritual Rejection and backlash
32:06 Understanding Radicalisation and Disagreement
34:32 The Role of Politics in Division
38:58 Finding the Balance in Discourse
40:24 Exploring the Themes of ‘Come Forth’
44:44 Jesuit Wisdom on Understanding Others
49:06 The Importance of Connection in Disagreement

The Sacred with James Martin 

What is sacred to you? Father James Martin responds.  

Elizabeth   

Father James, we’re going to kick off with a question that you can really take in any direction you like. For people who aren’t coming from a religious perspective, it’s often more about their deep values and principles. I’m trying to get a sense of what you would like to be orientating you in your life. So I’m going to ask, what is sacred to you? 

Fr James Martin   

Oh gosh. Well, first of all, thanks for having me on, it’s a real honour. What is sacred to me? You know, I’m a Jesuit, and one of our mottos is finding God in all things. And so I guess I could say everything really is sacred. That doesn’t mean every act is sacred, but you know, every person you meet is sacred. I think everything that’s created by God is sacred. But you know, in my life, the sacred is really focused around Jesus, that’s what the heart of my spiritual life is about. So I would say, in my life, it’s not so much what is sacred, but who is sacred? And that would be, for me, Jesus. 

Understanding the Sacred 

Elizabeth   

For someone who that’s not their tradition. Honestly, the question that comes up is, what does that mean? What does it look like for you? 

Fr James Martin   

I know, it is kind of crazy. So what does that mean? There’s two ways of answering that question. So as I said, I’m a Jesuit, and one of our mottos is finding God in all things. And that means that God can be found not just in reading the Bible or doing good works or going to church or praying, but in relationships and family and work and nature and art, which is really a very capacious spirituality. That that’s the first thing that I mean when I talk about the sacred. But the center of my faith is really focused on Jesus. Now, what does that mean? You’re right, that can be vague. So it means Jesus as we meet Jesus in the gospels, you know Jesus’ actions, his words and his deeds. But we also believe that Jesus has risen from the dead and  is present to us through the Holy Spirit, and so through the Spirit, is sort of leading us to do good things. We find Jesus in the church and in the sacraments. So there’s all sorts of ways of encountering Jesus. So yeah, I would say that when I hear ‘sacred’, those are the two things that come up: finding God in all things, the sacred in everyday life, and also the person of Jesus. That that’s how I would answer that question for me, at least.  

The Role of Discernment in Life 

Elizabeth   

Can you think of a moment in your life when those sacred things have been tested. I often think we’re not sure what are the things we’re trying to live by sometimes, until these moments of challenge or moral profundity or the temptation to compromise. You know, when we’re at a fork in the road and our life could go one way or the other, can you think of a moment where they have guided you, and sometimes we fail so you might not have chosen what you would have wished to at the time, but does anything come to mind?  

Fr James Martin   

I mean, I think just things recently, you know, in my own life. One of the things that’s helpful to understand is that we Jesuits talk about, this is going to sound like a very strange term, discernment of spirits, which sounds like it’s like ghosts flying around! But it basically means that there are impulses, movements, when I say voices, I don’t mean actually hearing voices, but you know the movements within you, voices that pull you one way or another. And there are impulses and movements and voices that pull us towards God, right? The charitable, loving, hopeful impulses and wants to move us away from God, selfish, mean spirited, despairing. And what we talk about in the Jesuits is, not only that God wants us to make good decisions, but God helps us to make good decisions through what we call discernment of spirits. In other words, you can kind of gage within yourself, what’s coming from God and what’s not coming from God. And recently, I was in a situation I want to get too detailed, where I just felt really despairing and just kind of miserable and turned in on myself. And I, thanks to discernment of spirits, said, this is clearly not coming from God.  

I often use the example these days, thank God we’re more or less past it, of the pandemic. And people were so despairing, right? Nothing will change. I’m sure you, maybe you experienced it personally, or you knew people that were like this. And the short hand was for me, that despair is never coming from God, it just isn’t, and hope is really always coming from God. That doesn’t mean everything’s always going to be perfect, and sunshine and lollipops and rainbows, but the feelings of despair are not feelings to follow. So that’s how in the Jesuits, as we say, we discern which way to go.  

Childhood Influences and Early Life 

Elizabeth   

Thank you. I’d love to get a sense of your story. Could you paint me a picture of you as, maybe we’d call it primary school age, I guess, kind of eight, or nine or ten, what was your world? And particularly, what were the big ideas that have been formatted on your later life? 

Fr James Martin   

Well I’m laughing because I’m writing a memoir now about just that, which is tons of fun, and I’m sort of living in that world. I’m laughing not at your question. It’s a great question, I think, like big ideas as an eight–year–old, it was, you know, how am I going to do on my math test? and 

Elizabeth   

How much sugar am I allowed?  

Fr James Martin  

Ha! What TV shows can I watch? I grew up outside of Philadelphia, in a suburban town. It was a very, if you’re familiar with this TV show, a very Brady Bunch, kind of lifestyle. In the suburbs, middle class. Not particularly religious, my family wasn’t super religious well we were Catholic, but, you know. I went to public school, now I know that means something different over there in the UK, meaning not a private school, not paid. And so I was just this kind of average kid, biking to school and working hard, and I was good in school and wasn’t really thinking about much else, other than doing well in school and friends. That was really important to me, having friends and being cool. When I was a young person, that was the focus of my life. How do I get people to like me? How can I be cool? How can I be in the ‘in crowd’? And eventually that’s kind of paralyzing, because if you’re just dependent on what other people think of you, you don’t have any real freedom. I mean, that took me a while. I certainly didn’t know that when I was eight or nine or even in high school. So yeah, just this kid who was trying to do well in school. And eventually I went to the University of Pennsylvania’s Wharton School of Business, studied business, worked for General Electric for a couple years, and then I entered the Jesuits. But yeah, I was a nice kid, but I don’t think I was thinking any big ideas, that’s for sure. 

Transitioning from Business to Jesuit Life 

Elizabeth   

So what was it that led you to study business? What was the thread you were pulling on? 

Fr James Martin 

Yeah well my dad was in business, and pretty much all the families I knew in the street, the fathers, not the mothers, at this time, this was in the 60s. I mean, some did, some were teachers and but the fathers all went to work, and so we didn’t have a lot of money. And when I went to college, I thought, well, you have to get a job, so what’s the best thing to do to? Go into business. And I studied finance, and I did well, and ended up at this great job at General Electric, formerly a great company. But, I say this in the book and I’ve said this in several of my books, there was really no one to say, what do you want to do with your life? Like, what would make you happy? What are you called to do? The idea of a vocation, never did anyone ask me that. I mean, my parents were like, how do you like business? Well, you seem to be good in business. Why not do that? They weren’t against it, and I don’t mean to denigrate them at all, but we didn’t have a lot of money. They were Depression era babies, and so you’ve got to make a living. And so that was the most practical thing I could do. And but eventually I just didn’t really like it. 

Elizabeth  

I’ve heard you talk about that time, there’s this little vignette that made me really sad of you being at your desk writing, ‘I hate my life. I hate my life’ on a piece of paper. It sounds like you were quite ill?  

Fr James Martin   

Yeah I mean, I only wrote it once!  

Elizabeth   

It wasn’t like plastered all over the walls? 

Fr James Martin   

Ha no. I mean, basically what happened was this, I studied at Wharton, at Penn. I had a great time at the University of Pennsylvania. I did, and it was fascinating. Business is fascinating. I mean, you know, I knew nothing about it. This was in 1982 I graduated. I was a yuppie. You’re familiar with that term, young urban professional. I was in New York in my 20s, making a ton of money  

Elizabeth 

And doing quite a lot of clubbing. Is that, right?  

Fr James Martin 

Yeah, well you will see how much when this new book comes out, yeah, a lot of it. 

Elizabeth   

Well I did a lot of clubbing a lot in my youth. I think there’s something ecstatic about it. 

Fr James Martin   

I was in my 20s and drinking a lot, and it was exciting. You know I was a yuppie. But what happened was I basically took a job at another section of GE, in GE Capital in finance, and it just got more and more stressful. And I just thought, what am I doing? I don’t really like this. It’s not really interesting. Business is a real vocation for a lot of people, and I just couldn’t see a way out. I thought, well, I’d studied business, what am I going to do? I and there was really no one to kind of encourage me to think more creatively and I felt stuck. And one night, I came home and saw a TV show about Thomas Merton, the American Trappist monk, and it just blew me away, just the whole idea the monastery and prayer, about which I knew zero. I mean, I really had no idea who Thomas Merton was. I knew there were monks and they prayed, and I don’t know what do they do? And that really just was so romantic and so beautiful, that was what drew me. And, you know, looking back, I’m not sure, depending on who’s listening, this is how God calls us. God calls us mainly through these attractions and desires. From a simple point of view, like, if you are a business person, you love business, you’re going to be drawn to that. Or an attorney, or someone who works for in radio or podcast, or religion. Even in terms of marriage, that’s how it happens, people are drawn together. It’s a call and that’s how it worked for me. 

Elizabeth   

Had you been going to church this whole time? How much had the faith that you’d inherited from your parents been a kind of live part of your identity through that whole period? 

Fr James Martin   

Kind of on and off. I mean, I didn’t go to Catholic school ever. In elementary school, I went most Sundays. My parents weren’t super religious, but if we missed mass, it wasn’t the end of the world. Junior High School and High School – yeah, most Sundays. College, when I wasn’t too hungover, I would go to Mass. And, at GE, most Sundays. But that’s all, I went to mass and I don’t think I ever talked to a priest outside of mass, ever. I mean they would visit our homes in the 60s, something called the block collection, going to different blocks and asking for money. The priest would visit you, and it was very awkward, because I didn’t know any priests. I was a kind of lukewarm Catholic, I sometimes call myself and all my friends were shocked when I told them what I was doing. 

Elizabeth  

And what was the hunger? What was it about it that made you feel that I hate this life, I might love that life? 

Fr James Martin   

Well, it was a push and a pull. So I did hate that life, so it was pushing me. So that wasn’t some big discernment. I didn’t like it. I was stressed out, I was getting all these stomach problems, I was getting migraines. I was just stressed, it was like almost 24/7. And the pull was this other life, whatever it was that Thomas Merton seemed to represent, seems so romantic, so beautiful, just seems so beautiful, like life in a monastery and helping people. And then I stumbled across the Jesuits. Someone randomly said you should talk to the Jesuits, which are a Catholic religious order, and that seemed to fit. I didn’t think I’d be a monk because, as you can tell, I talk a lot, but that’s how it sort of happened. You know, God writes straight with crooked lines, as the proverb says. 

Exploring Religious Orders 

Elizabeth   

And I do not come from a Catholic background. I think I had a sense of what a priest is, and I kind of knew what a monk was, but I am being slowly introduced to this whole new world of different religious orders, like the Jesuits. What is a religious order? 

Fr James Martin   

So, okay, most people know parish priests. Like they get that a parish priest, he’s ordained, he works in the parish, he’s under the bishop in the diocese, right? Sometimes they become bishops etcetera. There’s another way of being a priest or a brother, which is by living in community together. We take vows of poverty, so everything goes to the community. Chastity, we don’t get married. Obedience, we’re told kind of where to go, and we are living together, right? It’s not in a rectory, but in a religious community. So the ones that people would know would be the Franciscans – they’re a religious order, the Dominicans, very big in the UK, of course, the Trappists, there are monastic orders, and 

Elizabeth  

And they’re the silent ones?  

Fr James Martin 

Yeah Trappists are the silent ones. But even more silent would be like the Carthusians, really. If you ever seen the movie Into Great Silence, that was a great movie about the Carthusians. So it’s just two ways of being a priest or a brother, and there arr sisters, of course. There are women’s religious orders, and they’re all under the Pope. Basically, they’re the same. So I don’t work in a parish. You can see this office, I work in a magazine. Most Jesuits are known for working in schools. So a lot of the schools in the UK, and parishes in the UK, and Farm Street, you know, is our big parish in London and whatnot. So we do all sorts of different things, but the key is, we live in community. We take those vows, we were founded by Saint Ignatius Loyola, and we also do a lot of retreat works and spirituality. 

Community Living and Its Challenges 

Elizabeth   

So I should confess, the reason I’ve got interested in all of this is that this house that I’m sitting in is a very small experiment in intentional community. So my husband and kids and I have moved in with another family and turned the garage into a chapel, and we do kind of morning prayer and evening prayer. And we have a Rule of Life, and we’re trying to do sort of rhythms of prayer and hospitality. But we’re bodging this together from books and podcasts and like helpful modern translations of the rule of Saint Benedict, not the original because it’s too hard to read! But it’s a kind of recent interest in my life, this kind of monastic understanding of how we how we live together. What does it mean to love each other? What does it mean to grow together? And I think in this moment, whether you’re religious or not, the sort of trust crisis, loneliness crisis, housing crisis, climate crisis, means there’s an openness to the possibility that this tradition might have something to teach us, that this way of living might have something to teach us, whilst at the same time, certainly in the UK, like I think membership of religious orders is going right down. Do you see something changing in the way people think or talk about this? Or is there always a bit of interest and it holds steady across time.  

Fr James Martin   

I would say the latter, I think there’s always a bit of interest. I think there is a lot of loneliness in society today, and there’s a lot of isolation, and so people are looking for community. That’s a that’s a big word, I’m sure you hear that on your podcast all the time! I think the difference is for the Jesuits, it has a purpose, and it’s serving God, carrying out God’s will, doing charitable works, those kinds of things. And in a sense, the thing that makes it kind of easier for us than in your situation, is that there is this organizing governing principle, and we have vows of obedience. And so when we have the superior of the community who says we’re going to do this and we do it right. It’s not blind obedience. But the idea would be, okay, Jim, now you’ve been an America magazine for 25 years now I want you to go work at this parish. And so there’s a kind of structure there as well, and we don’t say no, because we take this vow of obedience. We believe that God’s working through this. That’s, that’s the challenge in a situation like yours, because, who’s in charge? And who says what time we’re eating dinner? And who says how –  the the kitchen’s always a big thing – who says how the dishwasher is unloaded or not unloaded? I’m sure you’re smiling, because I know you’ve been through all this. 

Elizabeth   

It’s because it’s the biggest argument we’ve ever had! 

Fr James Martin  

And one of the easy things about living in a religious house is you know the tradition, and this is how we do it. And you buy into that. So I think it’s harder for families to do it. And we’ve also been doing it for 450, years. So it doesn’t always work, but we’ve gotten most of the kinks out of it, right?  

Elizabeth   

Yeah, you know all the things that can go wrong. 

Fr James Martin   

Oh yeah, definitely. And all my salary, goes to my community. The end, I don’t see any of it. And, you know, I get what I need for my community, but there’s no, there’s no money arguments in our house. 

Chastity is difficult 

Elizabeth  

Yeah. So this is quite personal, but I get asked this question a lot, what is the hardest thing about living in a religious community? 

Fr James Martin   

Chastity, definitely. I mean, you know, it can be lonely and you don’t have an exclusive relationship, as we call it, and lack of physical intimacy, that’s definitely the toughest. Anyone who tells you otherwise is not being true. But by the same token, I live with wonderful people, I have tons of friends, I have a lot of love in my life, and it works for me. And I think, if I were in a relationship, I think I’d actually get bored. I think I kind of know myself well enough. Poverty is not as difficult, except at times. And I’ve never found obedience difficult, frankly. Obedience, mainly in the Jesuits, is, we want you to work here, that’s what the obedience comes down to. But yeah, chastity is definitely the hardest. 

Elizabeth  

Thanks for raising that. It’s down on my list of questions, because reading your writing honestly, and obviously there’s lots that I won’t have read, but it felt like one of the few times I’ve heard that spoken about with such honesty and actually, such tenderness. You know, the ways the public conversation about priestly chastity is either this sort of salacious, icky, overly interested, you know. Or the like but it is God’s call, and it is important, and there is no problem. Why do you feel able to talk about it in public, and what are the healthier ways we could narrate it?  

Fr James Martin   

As I’ve lived it for 36 years, I’ve been saying to people, do you have any aunts or uncles that are unmarried? Oh yeah, so and so. Any cousins? Oh yeah. Are they crazy? No, they’re just unmarried. Why are they unmarried? They’ve chosen to be unmarried, or things didn’t work out, or they’re widowed. Are they nuts? Are they like, sick? No. 

So I think that needs to be kind of reminded, I often remind people that. I was like, Do you have any aunts or uncles that are unmarried? Oh, sure, they’re wonderful. Are they loving? Oh, I love her, she’s wonderful. Is she a loving part of your family? Oh, she’s amazing, the kids love her more because she has more time. Yeah, that’s kind of what we’re getting at. But the idea that people would choose it, it just kind of freaks people out. So I think it’s just important to talk about it honestly. But yeah you’ve identified them very well. The two strains are: that’s crazy, no one can do it, you’re sick or, you’re so holy you’re a saint. And it’s just as wrong to talk about motherhood that way. Oh, mothers are saints or, you know, mothers they they’re so dysfunctional and they screw up their kids. And so it’s another way of living in the world, another way of loving, I would say. 

Having a public voice 

Elizabeth   

Yeah. Thank you. I want to talk about your vocation in particular, as someone shaping the public conversation. At what point in your journey did you think, actually I need to use my voice in public, or were you told to by your order? 

Fr James Martin   

So I went through what’s called formation Jesuit training, we call formation because you’re formed. And what did I do? I studied philosophy at Loyola University Chicago. I worked for two years in East Africa with refugees, helping them start small businesses. I came back and worked at America Media for a year. We work full–time during our studies. I studied theology for three or four years, I forget how long. And then I was assigned to work at America Media. And pretty much from the get–go, you’re writing articles, and I was writing books. So from the beginning, after my ordination, I was kind of contributing things I would say in the public square. And then recently, I started to do more work with the LGBTQ community, starting about 2016. Most of my work has been writing books about spirituality and prayer and the saints, things like that, a little more mainstream than the more recent work that I’ve done, which has brought me much more into the public eye! 

Elizabeth   

What prompted that in 2016? What happened? 

Fr James Martin   

The Pulse nightclub massacre happened, which you may remember in 2016, 49 people… 

Elizabeth 

Was that Miami? 

Advocacy for the LGBTQ Community  

Fr James Martin 

Yeah, Orlando, at a nightclub. And I felt that the church’s response was really pretty pathetic. And I thought if this were any other group, we would be saying how we should pray with them and having masses for them and I did a Facebook post that went viral, when viral was a good thing, and pre–pandemic. And then that led to a talk and a book called Building a Bridge and that led to this ministry. We were talking about discernment before, each step I was discerning, is this the right thing to do? Should I do a Facebook post? Should I do this talk? Should I do this book? And then I got invited to give all these talks, and there was a lot of pushback. Then I was invited by the Vatican to give a talk at The World Meeting of Families in Dublin in 2018. I met with the Pope in 2019 and he supported the work, and it just sort of took off. And now we have this ministry called Outreach, our website is Outreach.faith, and we’re even having an event, which I can say at the Synod during the Synod in Rome in a couple of weeks. So that’s been interesting; that’s been a real shift in my life. And it’s not something that I planned, it just kind of happened. But I discerned each step of the way, and also asked for permission each step of the way. I think most people now today, if they know me at all, they know me more for the LGBT stuff. And I’ve become this figure, it’s just the strangest thing. This boy who was biking to school didn’t expect to be this person that everybody either hates or loves. It’s very strange. 

Elizabeth   

This might reveal my naivety, but you know you say you ask for permission every step of the way, presumably, because there’s a lot of people that would see this as a change or in opposition to Catholic teaching, there must have been some turbulence internally about your identity and your sense of belonging and the possible cost of this? 

Fr James Martin  

Well, yeah, I didn’t realize when I when I wrote a book called Building a Bridge, and it’s very small, it’s 120 pages, I thought we what we call in the United States, ‘a one off’, it’ll be used by parishes, and I’ll move on to my other stuff. Yeah, 

Elizabeth 

Yeah and go back to writing about the saints? 

Fr James Martin 

Well, yeah, which I actually feel much more comfortable about. My new book is called Come Forth, it’s about Lazarus, and it’s what I feel more comfortable doing. I’m not a controversialist. I really hate that kind of stuff. But at each step of the way, I felt like this was the right thing to do. It is the right thing to speak up for LGBTQ people, you know, for whom very few people are advocating in the Catholic Church. I thought that was really important. And so when I asked for permission, it was more that I knew that as a Jesuit, it would affect other Jesuits, and I’m part of a whole and I can’t just strike out on my own and do what I want. And even though I felt that it was the right thing, I needed to say to my superiors, I’m going to do this, does this make sense? Yes, that’s fine. And sometimes they say, no, we don’t want you to do that. And that’s the benefit of doing all this from within the church, is that I think I have more of a voice. The negative is that sometimes they say, no, you can’t do that. So it’s kind of navigating that, that’s where the obedience comes in. That’s a new kind of obedience for me. It’s kind of checking with people and making sure it’s okay. 

Spiritual Rejection and backlash 

Elizabeth   

Yeah. So you know, you say you’re not a controversialist, and from reading and listening to you, I can just hear that your tone and posture is not like someone who’s really up for a fight. But when I went was doing my deep dive research, going searching and listening to podcasts and videos. And half the entries are these very lovely, devotional, long form things on the examine, and that’s you speaking. And then half of them are this terrible heretic works of Satan, I don’t need to repeat it, bile really. They seem to feel very strongly about it. 

Fr James Martin  

Yeah they’re really mean. They do. Yeah, it’s really a strange thing. 

Elizabeth   

How have you navigated that, personally and spiritually?  

Fr James Martin   

Well, that’s actually an easy question to answer, because I think about it all the time! I was on a retreat like seven or eight years ago, and I was praying about a passage called the rejection at Nazareth. And so for those people who aren’t Christian, who don’t know the Bible very well, it’s about Jesus preaching in his hometown of Nazareth. He preaches, and initially, everybody thinks he’s great, and then he starts to say, well, you’re probably going to say, do miracles here like you did somewhere else, and the Prophet is not welcome in his own land. And they start to get angry at him. They get so angry at him, they chase him out of the synagogue, and they drive him to what’s called the brow of the hill to throw him off i.e. they try to kill him, which is usually kind of downplayed when we talk about this. And I remember praying about this, in the Jesuits, we have this tradition of imagining yourself in a scene literally, just picturing yourself and trusting that what comes up is maybe what God wants you to look at. And I imagine myself in the scene, and I imagine asking Jesus, like, how could you do this? Like you know what they were going to say if you come up and you say, “I’m the Messiah.” And what I heard in prayer, not orally, but what kind of came up to me, was Jesus asking me in prayer. “Must everyone like you?” That was a big thing. And remember, we were talking about when I was young, how that was a big thing for me, right, getting everyone to like me? And it is for everybody at that age. And I had to admit to myself, I needed to be free of that. That’s the first thing: not everybody’s going to like me. Second thing is: I had the support of the Pope, of the Jesuits, of my brother Jesuits, I do everything within the church, I remind myself of that. And then the third thing: I think it’s the right thing to do, and people are going to push back. Our model for this is Jesus and a lot of people didn’t like Jesus.  

And then there’s a lot of homophobia out there, and I have to kind of ignore it. I’m used to it now. I’ll be honest, I don’t talk about this too much, it’s still very weird for me, because I go about my daily life, and maybe I give a talk at some someplace, and there’s like 100 protesters. And I just think, you’re upset about me!? And people think I’m devious and deceitful and all this, I’ve never challenged Church teaching. I’m basically just trying to get people to listen to LGBT people, but people feel very strongly about it. When I was at the Synod last year, it’s supposed to be a big gathering where everybody listens to each other, one delegate refused to sit next to me, and he left. He was so angry. And I was like look, dude, I didn’t say this, but even if you think I’m a sinner, right, you’re supposed to sit next to me, that’s the Gospels. The other thing we have to remember is this, most of the people who are there might be people who would disagree with me and say, “I’m not sure about that.” But the people who get enraged, a lot of it’s their own stuff. It’s something going on inside of them about their own sexuality. And I’ve had enough people write to me, believe it or not, saying 5 or 10 years ago, I was against you, but I’ve just come out, etc, right? So there’s a certain psychological makeup of the person who’s just enraged. 

Understanding Radicalisation and Disagreement 

Elizabeth   

And I’m really interested in this. There’s a sociologist who calls it ‘mutual radicalization’, the way in which disagreement and difference kicks us into fight or flight, and when someone attacks us, and we react defensively, then they attack and we sort of harden into these extreme positions. And I sort of see Jesus’ teaching in the New Testament around turning the other cheek and loving our enemies as these amazing sort of countervailing practices. But I know I’ve had radically less than the abuse that you’ve had, but in the instances where I’ve experienced something similar, the reaction to me is really like screw you! Like, these are the reasons you’re stupid and wrong! 

Fr James Martin   

Yeah. I mean, you’re a human being, and I sometimes feel that interiorly. But you know, I did something really interesting over the last year. So I’m a member of the Synod, even a lot of Catholics may be familiar with it, but it’s a worldwide gathering of people to help the church move ahead in terms of its governance and looking at different issues. And we met last year for the first time, 350 delegates. We’re meeting in October of this year, and it’s to really help Pope Francis make his decisions. It’s very consultative. They call it the largest consultative gathering in world history, which it probably is, because it asks people from every parish in the world, there are Catholics everywhere. 

Anyway, when I was there, the LGBTQ issue came up. And let me tell you the stuff people said:  most people were quite open and welcoming, but some people were really just… I said to someone, “You could get arrested in the States for hate speech, for saying some of these things.” So what I did was I really sought them out. I really tried to talk to them face to face. And then over the past year, I did a little project off and on, where I would meet with them on Zoom or email or just in–person. And I wrote an article about it that just came out on Outreach.faith, which is our website and America Media, on that process and what I learned, and what their objections were, and also what my responses are. So it is possible. It’s hard, though. I had an African Archbishop say to me, imagine you have to be polite to everyone you meet, but certainly at the Synod and certainly to an archbishop, it’s a priest, “The only reason people are gay in my country is because Americans like you come and pay them to be gay.” So you have to just say, okay, Archbishop, let’s talk about that. So it’s hard, it’s a lot of work, but we have to become good listeners and good friends before we can tackle the tough stuff. 

The Role of Politics in Division 

Elizabeth   

Yeah, it’s not just sexuality, is it? I think the Catholic Church is in a moment of increasing division, and that’s just mirroring societies across the world. You know, the Church of England is similarly at each other’s throats about sexuality. What is your hunch about what is driving some of these dynamics that are pushing us apart?  

Fr James Martin  

Well, one thing I want to say, because I know your audience, one of the most helpful insights came from, I’m sure you know him, Father Timothy Radcliffe, who was the former master general the Dominicans, who gave brilliant talks. They’re collected in a book called Listening Together. And he quoted Saint John Paul II, I’d never heard this before, and it really changed my mind about the Synod and what the goals were, “Affective collegiality precedes effective collegiality.” So affective collegiality, friendship, precedes any effect of collegiality or discussion. You cannot really talk about these tough things without being friends.  

What is driving it? I think a lot of it iss driven by politics and politicians right, who are increasingly vituperative and us versus them. I think social media has a lot to do with it; people can say whatever they want and put out all sorts of lies. I also think, I would say two things: in the United States, I think a lot of it’s a racism. I know this sounds very specific, but I think when Barack Obama was elected, people were very upset, and a lot of racists thought, this can’t be happening. The influx of migrants in all different countries, which is a legitimate challenge. I worked with refugees in East Africa, so it’s a challenge to host, you know, hundreds of thousands of people, but demonizing them is not the way to go. This is not Christian. And I think really certain political actors. I’m trying to be careful not to mention names have made it okay to hate people again. And I think it’s really sad, and do you remember, we were talking about discerning spirits earlier in the conversation? That is not coming from God. Anything that is  demonizing other people, making them into animals, literally calling them animals, that is not coming from God and that’s not Christian. So I think it’s okay to hate people again publicly and we have to work against that. 

Finding the Balance in Discourse 

Elizabeth   

Where’s the line? I think about this a lot, because I’m sort of listening across difference, you know, radical empathy. Honestly, I think a lot of this is just personality, like so much of my theology and philosophy, maps onto my temperament, and I think that’s true of most people, rather than being the outcome of a rigorous intellectual exercise. But I am aware that, well, partly I just annoy people because I’m seen as a wishy–washy fence sitter, but how do we hold together that posture towards others, and we would share a kind of Christian commitment to people being made in the image of God, and a commitment to wanting to protect their dignity and to name their value and their beauty and their vulnerability actually, and then holding lines on things that need lines? 

Fr James Martin  

That’s a very good question, I was just thinking about that yesterday. We were having a discussion here at American Media. You know, you don’t want to demonize people who vote for one side or the other, but you also want to call out things that are actually wrong, right? So demonizing migrants and refugees, calling them animals. In the United States, saying that you’re going to basically become a dictator. You know, there are some lines that you should not cross. I think part of it is not demonizing the person that’s what I try to do. Anytime you say “He is like this”, or, “She is like this”, or, “You are like that”. For example, anyone who votes for this person you know anyone in the United States right now, if you vote for Donald Trump, you’re racist. If you vote for Kamala Harris, you are a baby killer, those kinds of things. But it is important to call out the things that are said, and to say this is not in keeping with, certainly for me, Christian values or even moral values. I really do struggle with that, like, what is the line now? As a priest, I try to stay out of politics. That’s very important, we’re not allowed to endorse and I think that’s reasonable. I don’t want to split my congregation. But by the same token, we have to say, look, there are certain Christian values: love, forgiveness, charity, don’t that’s, that sounds pretty wishy washy, but also welcoming the stranger. Sorry you don’t like it, take it up with Jesus, right? Helping the poor, helping the sick, visiting the prisoners. One of the lines I like, I think it’s Matthew 5, “If you call anyone a fool, you will be liable to the fires of hell.” Jesus is saying, if you call people names, you’re going to go to hell. It’s pretty blunt, and people just pass that by. So, you know, for me, it’s, it’s the gospel, and if the gospel has political implications, so be it. But I don’t set out to be political.  

Exploring the Themes of ‘Come Forth’ 

Elizabeth   

I’d love to hear about Come Forth. What is the thesis of your newest book? 

Fr James Martin   

I’d love to talk about Come Forth. Here’s the beautiful cover of Come Forth, also available in the UK. So it’s a deep dive into the story of the raising of Lazarus, which is in John’s Gospel for those people that don’t know. Two sisters, Martha and Mary, two very outspoken, wonderful sisters in the Gospel, send word to Jesus that their brother, Lazarus, is ill. Interestingly, they call him, “He who you love, is ill”, which is very beautiful. Jesus waits, he comes, they take him to the tomb. And there’s a stone there. He says, “Take away the stone.” He calls out, “Lazarus come forth!” And the dead man comes out. It’s traditionally called Jesus’s greatest miracle. So  the thesis of the book is a combination of spirituality. So what does it mean? What does that story mean for our everyday lives? Biblical exegesis, like looking at the text and what does it say? A little bit of a cultural history of Lazarus through the years or the centuries, and then a travelog, I go to the place where it happened. But it’s basically, what are we called to leave behind in our tombs and, in a sense, let die? What are the things that keep us from hearing God’s voice? Who is calling to us every day, come forth, you know, into new life? So what do we need to let go of? What do we need to let die? Resentments, grudges, disappointments, old ways of being, anger, negativity in the sort of metaphorical tomb, and hear God’s voice calling us to new life. So that’s the thesis. 

Elizabeth   

Obviously, one of the most famous bits is that the, you know, the shortest verse, “Jesus wept.”  

Fr James Martin   

You know that’s actually I have a whole chapter on that “Jesus wept.” And one of the interesting things, which might blow your mind a little bit, it blew my mind, is so the New Testament is written in Greek, when you go back to the Greek, the Greek words that are used around that passage, “Jesus wept”, actually are more words that are used about anger. So he’s clearly sad about this friend’s death, but there’s a bit of anger and frustration. And the word that is used is the word that’s used for a horse snorting. And he was deeply perturbed and moved in spirit, and he wept. So I go over through the chapter, why is he angry? Is he angry at people’s disbelief? Is he angry at the fact of death? Is he angry because he knows this is going to lead to his death? Because, interestingly, in John’s gospel, and this, to me, makes more sense than the Synoptic Gospels, the reason he gets this great triumphant entry on Palm Sunday was because he’s just raised somewhere from the dead, and the reason that people want to kill him is this. So there’s a death life, death life pattern. Lazarus’ death leads to his life, leads to Jesus’s death, leads to new life. And so that passage, I have a whole chapter on it, because it’s so it’s very shocking to people. 

Now we don’t know this is, this is also being sort of translated from the Aramaic, and we don’t know exactly, but it’s good to go back to the Greek and try to puzzle out some of these things.  And there’s a challenge there but the key is, he’s human, he shows emotions. And we’re uncomfortable with that. We’re very uncomfortable with a human Jesus. He weeps, he learns, you say that, and people get very upset, right? There’s some things in the gospels he seems not to know. This is just to sort of tease people’s minds. The theological conundrum is this, we believe, I believe that Jesus is fully human and fully divine. It’s the great mystery. Jesus is the mystery. And anyone who says they they have Jesus down pat, they don’t, because he’s always bigger than our conceptions. We can’t get our minds around that.  

Jesuit Wisdom on Understanding Others 

Elizabeth      

What have you learned about how to be people who can navigate divides and deal with difference without dehumanizing people who disagree with us? 

Fr James Martin   

Well, there’s some Jesuit wisdom to be brought to bear. At the very beginning of what’s called The Spiritual Exercises Saint Ignatius’ great spiritual text, the kind of mapping out of a four–week retreat. He has something called the presupposition, supposed to undergird everything. And you would think the presupposition is, God’s in charge, and we should always pray to Mary, or we should do XYZ. The presupposition for The Spiritual Exercises is, always give people the benefit of the doubt about what they’re saying. That’s the presupposition, always try to put a positive spin on things. And if you don’t understand it, ask. So that’s really powerful for me. That’s the first thing as a Jesuit, always try to give people the benefit of the doubt. And then the second thing is, as I learned this year: be comfortable listening to people that you disagree with, and try to really understand where they’re coming from, because they’re human beings. But by the same token, have a sense of where your lines are. You know, someone says something crazy like ‘I am fearful of losing my job with migrants coming in’, or “I’m fearful that the government’s resources will be diverted to migrants because my family is so poor.” I understand, that’s a real fear. Let’s talk about that. Let’s talk about what migrants actually bring to the country and how they actually help the economy. And let’s go back and forth. If he says, “I think all migrants should be killed”, I draw the line. 

So there are lines that I think we need to kind of be clear about, but we also have to listen to where people are coming from. It’s challenging, Jesus does this. He listens to people, of course it’s easier when you’re the Son of God and you can raise people from the dead! But that’s our task, and we do it imperfectly, but we have to do it, because not to do it at all would be, I think, the end of civilization. 

Elizabeth   

Yes. Father James Martin, on that note, thank you so much for speaking to me for The Sacred.  

Fr James Martin  

My pleasure. Thanks for having me on. 


Interested in this? Share it on social media. Join our monthly e–newsletter to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our Supporter Programme to find out how you can help our work. 

]]>
hello@theosthinktank.co.uk (Elizabeth Oldfield) https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/23/father-james-martin-on-chastity-controversy-building-bridges-with-lgbtq-catholics
Books and the Future of Civilisation live from How The Light Gets In https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/22/books-and-the-future-of-civilisation-live-from-how-the-light-gets-in Tue, 22 Oct 2024 05:00:00 +0100 Books and the Future of Civilisation live from How The Light Gets In

Nick Spencer is joined by Johanna Thomas–Corr, David Shariatmadari and Juliet Mabey live at How The Light Gets In Festival. 22/10/2024

We are emerging from the so–called “Gutenberg Parenthesis”, the 500 years in which the printed word dominated society, and embracing a new age of screens, images, and tweets. Or so it is claimed. Reading remains popular, however, and the printed book has rallied of late.

What’s going on? Might the dominance of the book, indeed of the written word, be coming to an end? Or is it the only medium capable of handling the complexities of human reason and imagination? And how much does any of this matter?

In a live recording at the How the Light Gets in festival in London, Nick Spencer discusses the future of books and reading with Times literary critic Johanna Thomas–Corr, Guardian literary editor David Shariatmadari and editorial director of Oneworld Publications Juliet Mabey.

 


Interested in this? Share it on social media. 

Join our monthly e–newsletter to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our Supporter Programme to find out how you can help our work.

 to find out how you can help our work.]]>
nick.spencer@theosthinktank.co.uk (Nick Spencer) https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/22/books-and-the-future-of-civilisation-live-from-how-the-light-gets-in
Converting to Islam and the Pursuit of Meaning with Dr Timothy Winter (Abdal Hakim Murad) https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/16/converting-to-islam-and-the-pursuit-of-meaning-with-dr-timothy-winter-abdal-hakim-murad Wed, 16 Oct 2024 09:38:00 +0100 Converting to Islam and the Pursuit of Meaning with Dr Timothy Winter (Abdal Hakim Murad)

Elizabeth Oldfield speaks with Islamic Scholar Dr Timothy Winter. 16/10/2024

What is sacred to you? Timothy Winter answers 

Elizabeth  

Hello, and welcome to The Sacred. My name is Elizabeth Oldfield, and this is a podcast about the deep values of people from a wide range of political, metaphysical and professional perspectives. My guest today is Dr Tim winter, who is also known as Sheik Abdal Hakim Murad, and he is an Islamic theologian. Tim, I am going to kick off by asking you, what is sacred to you? 

Timothy Winter   

I suppose there is the objective sacred, which is what human beings since the Upper Paleolithic have experienced as something mysteriously inhering, in the beauty of nature, of relationships the human face, just the enigma of being, which probably all human beings, just by virtue of being human, have experienced probably quite frequently in their lives, even if they don’t have the right vocabulary to explore it. And the subjective sacred, which is how we, from our culturally specific, class–based, gender–based, education–based mental cultural formation actually receive and interpret that. So my own experience of the sacred has been, I suppose, an attempt to interpret that universal and probably most important of human sensations that, behind the surface of the world, there is something that gives sense of meaning and direction to the world. For me, that has always been most easily interpreted in the language of traditional Semitic Monotheism, that the sacred principle, the light, the goodness, the beauty, the experience, and truth behind things is an enigma that is least bafflingly articulated in the limited net of human language, in terms of there being a kind of analogy to a person who, rather than what, is the origin and the end and the purpose of everything. That’s the most that my limited Western mind can encompass, I think. I have enormous respect for other traditions which are less personalists, some of the Buddhist traditions, for instance, some of the Indic Traditions, Chinese traditions. But I’m very much from the far west of the old world, and I can only see the sacred as being interpreted in terms of there being personal life as the author and the ground of being. 

What is Semitic Monotheism? 

Elizabeth   

You use this phrase ‘Semitic Monotheism’. Could you unpack that a little bit for me? 

Timothy Winter  

Well, monotheism as historically expressed through the Hebrew prophets and articulated in terms of the Abrahamic idea of a personal God. A God that in some mysterious, allegorical way, weaves stories that enable us to pick up on the fragments of light and meaning that we see in our lives, and to see a greater purpose for stories, which are often moral. So I suppose by Semitic Monotheism, I mean Abrahamic religion, the belief in a single, personal, creator God who creates in time, and who resurrects, and to whom there will be a final reckoning. So unlike, say, the dharmic religions of the subcontinent, where history is more cyclical than linear and the Divine is mediated in more complex ways. 

Elizabeth   

Yes, I really like that phrase you used, “Who not what”, as a way of gesturing towards that personalist understanding of God. 

Timothy Winter  

With all the paradoxes that that generates, of course! 

Life at Westminster College 

Elizabeth   

Yes! I can hear your care, and I love that. When I’m sort of trying to write or speak about this hugely semiotically dense three letters ‘God’, I have sometimes put it in square brackets to acknowledge that we need not to fling it around as if everyone knows what we’re talking about, or as if it is uncomplicated as a concept. Okay, we’re going to try and locate you in your story and how you came to have that instinctive underlying logic in your life. So, I’d love to hear about your childhood. Could you just paint me a picture of young Tim, maybe at age eight or nine? What was your world and what were you like? 

Timothy Winter   

Well, no adventures, really! Middle class, mediocre, middle of the road, middle England. Brought up in a leafy North London suburb, went to private schools. I was at a school called Westminster, which, at the time, was undergoing one of its sort of summits of cultural production. Every evening, some bunch of earnest, slightly nerdy, pupils were putting on some Samuel Beckett play, and everybody was terribly taxed by the latest articles at the Times Literary Supplement. And in some ways, it was artificial, but in other ways, it did actually confirm our sense that the life of the mind was interesting, that education was not just about pointing one like a gun at the stockbroker belt from an early age, whatever parents might have intended. But it was an attempt to explore, albeit it was a very secular school, the deep mystery of human consciousness and the fact that we are capable, despite our humble origins, of quite enormous profundity. The fact that out of the total chaos of the Big Bang, you can have processes that lead to the immense subtlety of Shakespeare, for instance, although we tended to regard that as a rather uncool way of arguing, is itself a kind of pointer towards the existence of guiding meaning laden principles in the universe that, despite the tendency of matter to be entropic and to wind down into greater chaos and greater disorder, nonetheless produces structures which enable greater forms of order to develop, leading ultimately (it was a humanistic interpretation, but quite a convincing one) to the deep miracle of human consciousness, human creativity, the perception of the beauty, the perception that in morality, there is something deep and eternal that touches us, that I think was probably quite a good preparation for many of us. And I’ve stayed in touch with some of my school friends since then. 

Elizabeth   

My goodness! You’re reminding me of an interview I did with Ian McGilchrist, who spoke about when he went to Winchester College, as similarly very formative on his worldview, were they the rivals? 

Timothy Winter   

Terrible place! Well in cricket there was an ongoing issue. 

The influence Congregationalism and 1970s Modernism 

Elizabeth   

I see, it’s the Sharks and the Jets transposed to public schools! But it, I think, for me and for a lot of listeners, that was not our experience of school. So, it’s very helpful to hear how early on those questions were live for you, were they live at home? Tell me about your parents, if you don’t mind, what kind of world were they forming?  

Timothy Winter   

My father was regarded as one of the leading exponents of architectural modernism in the UK. So he got his gong from the Queen and was president of the Royal Institute of British Architects for a while, and a member of the Royal Fine Arts Commission. So I was brought up with a kind of art and architecture influence. I remember at the age of about six, being taken to my first David Hockney exhibition, I think it was at the Whitehall Gallery, and looking with some legitimate sort of six–year–old perplexity at some of Hockney’s images. But we were certainly immersed in that world of modernism, the excitement of the 1960s and 1970s, that the old ways were being kicked away, the dusty, Gothic kind of repetitiveness of the old England. And we’re going to move into a rather more, I suppose, Californian space, where the sky was the limit, entrepreneurship, new forms, new excitement. And I was brought up in what is sometimes regarded as London’s leading showcase of modernist domestic architecture, which is a house in the middle of Highgate Cemetery. Which is still kind of a point of pilgrimage for a lot of modernists and is a listed building and so forth.  

Elizabeth 

Wow, so your dad designed it? 

Timothy Winter 

He designed it, yeah. So I was brought up in the middle, right to the cutting edge of modernity with my father, who, at the time was a kind of convinced follower of Bertrand Russell and thought that religion was pretty, nice at Christmas, but one really needed to move on into the world of steel and glass and Le Corbusier and Mies van der Rohe. So at our dinner table, we’d quite often have leading modernist architects. Norman Foster was a kind of rival back in the 1970s, they competed against each other in competitions. Various other leading names in the modernist movement would float across my skeptical teenage radar. So that had a kind of impact in that I was at the sharp end of modernity looking at the steel and glass alternative to the gothic traditions of merry England. 

Elizabeth   

And am I right in thinking you had some quite committed ministers in the generation above you? Was that your dad’s parents who were in ministry? 

Timothy Winter   

Well, the deeper family history was a little street in Norwich, and I did the research once to see exactly whether there had been anybody in my family tree who’d ever done anything of any interest whatsoever; won a medal, perhaps, or built a bridge, and I found silence. Yeah so, we lived for about 200 years on King Street in Norwich. We had a draper’s shop, and we were a prosperous middle–class family, I suppose. And we lived more or less opposite what is now known and celebrated as the shrine of Mother Julian of Norwich. But of course, as devout Congregationalist, Calvinist chapel folk, we never darkened its doors. It was regarded as a kind of shocking relic of popery, and it was just as well that it was falling to pieces; who would possibly go there for that idolatrous, rank popery? So that’s a kind of but the chapel Congregationalist world was really the center of everybody’s life, until suddenly, my grandfather’s generation, when everybody would take the pledge. 

Elizabeth 

What was the pledge?  

Timothy Winter 

The pledge was to lay off the demon drink forever and you would go up to put your hand on the Bible and swear off drink forever more. And interestingly, that same structure, or the Sunday School attached to it, and I have dim recollections as a rather grumpy child having to go to Sunday school, it’s actually become a mosque. So, I now tell my family now in Norwich, “I’m the only one who’s keeping up the family tradition! I still go to that place, and I still don’t drink. Don’t know about you guys.” And they give me a look. But it’s always been important to me to recognize that the monotheisms are closely intertwined and similar, and that taking the step into something in Islam is not visiting Mars or some remote elsewhere. It’s a different variation on the same principles of Semitic Monotheism. So yes, that that’s that sanctuary of my family, going back, I suppose at least 200 years is now, is now a very busy mosque, lots of converts and a very active place. There’s an irony. 

Elizabeth   

And do you think your dad was reacting against that world in his kind of Bertrand Russell, 1960s modernist world? 

Timothy Winter   

Yeah I think he was. I think that if you were brought up in the 40s and 50s in an English provincial town, everything must have seemed extremely mediocre, and dull, and monochrome. This was before multiculturalism, before the sexual revolution, before the Beatles. And if you had any kind of intelligence, and I’ve inherited his library, and he was reading very extensively and interested in art and architecture in his early teens, it must have seemed extremely disappointing and a waste of one’s life, the sort of Edwardian preoccupations with virtue signaling within the Old English class system, where you went to take your tea, which theaters you went to and didn’t go to, where you sat in chapel. All of that was, I think, extremely oppressive to a lot of people, which accounts for the extraordinary explosion that happened in the 1960s that was an energetic, chaotic, in many ways destructive reaction against something that by that time, had become almost unbearable to a generation that had wireless and TV and movies and were seeing a wider world. So I think that he formed part of that. And his reaction was to look to where he thought the life and the vigor and the sincerity was in the Western world, which was in the United States. He loved America, he did his Masters at Yale. Then he drove across the continent in a converted funeral wagon or something, I guess petrol was cheap in those days, he drove all the way to California. He worked for a leading architectural firm there called Skidmore, built his first skyscraper, and he experiences America as a land of possibility, of openness, of friendliness and of a lack of the kind of forensic class differentials which were the great preoccupation of England at that time.  

The role of religion in Timothy Winter’s early life 

Elizabeth 

So given that background, it would have been very easy for you to just default to atheism. But it sounds like, at Westminster School, surrounded by the cathedral and this liturgy, religion was always something you were interested in in some form. Is that fair to say? 

Timothy Winter   

I think that there was something so non–conformist about Westminster School in the 70s, encouraged by its Maverick headmaster, John Ray, who regarded being different as being part of the individualistic possibilities of the Enlightenment. And he would actively encourage eccentric behavior, as long as it didn’t involve drugs or alcohol. He kind of actively promoted this world of intellectual exploration that the conventional sort of disregard for the idea of religion was perhaps slightly less common, and there were a few earnest Christians at the school. In a sense, it was uncool to consider religion to be uncool, unlike many school kids. And every morning we prayed at Westminster Abbey and experienced the beauty of the building and the liturgy. And even though the headmaster was just as likely to read a rather disturbing Kafka short story as he was to read something from St Paul, it was that kind of place. And of course, girls arrived when I was there, which was another kind of strain on the traditional sort of public school ethos. But we had a chaplain, William Booth, who then went on to become the Queen’s chaplain for a while, a kind of mild mannered Ulsterman, who put up with our endless jeering and gave us an example of somebody who is living a kind of humble Christian life that we noticed, even though not many kids went up for confirmation or went to compline and the Abbey, it was a very secular place. But he did encourage us to think not just about, whether there is there a God, but also you know about the historical, doctrinal claims of Christianity, which he took seriously. So he exposed us to the doctrine of the Trinity, to the vicarious atonement, to the dual nature of Christ, the history of the Church councils. This was in a rather vague ‘God slot’ which did exist back then called Divinity, which didn’t lead to a proper O–Level or anything, so it was a kind of chance to muck around. But given the nature of the school, we mucked around in ways that satisfied a certain intellectual curiosity. But it has to be said that very few of the kids actually bought his kind of presentation of traditional church Christianity, the Trinity didn’t seem to make sense to us. Three into one don’t go, that kind of argument seemed to us conclusive. And towards the end of the decade, when theology still made it to the front pages in the English press, there was a scandal ever a book called The Myth of God Incarnate, which was edited by radical theologians like John Hick, which claimed that the historical Jesus would not have voted the right way at the church councils, that he was practicing Judaism. He wouldn’t have accepted being a person of a trinity. He didn’t believe in the dual nature or original sin, or any of those doctrines that emerged in the early Christian centuries. So, for me, that segued into a certain skepticism that had come out of those rather ill–fated and combative Divinity classes that had punctuated my teenage years. 

Elizabeth   

So you became a Unitarian for a while, I gathered through sort of part of that journey, what was drawing you there? 

Timothy Winter   

Well, I had always retained the conviction through various maverick personal experiences that the least absurd explanation of the great mystery, the enigma of being, is that there is a Divine principle behind it. I never lost sight of that, although I was tested on a few occasions, usually in moments of tragedy. But the idea of a Triune God, the idea of the church is currently constituted the kind of bells and smells of high church ritual, or even some of the things that we did in Westminster Abbey, as faithfully reflecting the lifestyle, the beliefs, the purposes of that amazing Jesus of Nazareth, whose teachings shine through as something that can’t be interpreted just as a kind of interesting product of first century Palestinian Jewish Hasidic piety, but somehow transcend time and space and do speak to us as the sacred of universals, that there was a disconnect between the Christ of faith and the Jesus of history. And I found reading things like John Hicks’ stuff, Dennis Nineham, Don Cupitt, people like that, theologians who were active at the time that said actually the historical Jesus is more attractive and speaks to us more than the kind of glorified Pantocrator Christ raised in heaven, judging the quick and the dead. So it seemed to me like to be like a choice between the Jesus of history and the Christ of faith. And that didn’t sort of trigger some kind of total meltdown for me, but an option for the Jesus of history, the amazing wandering rabbi of first century Galilee, with his very radical but deep and intuitively moving teachings. The parables, the ethos of early first primitive Christianity, as opposed to the kind of golden, Byzantine splendor and Hellenized doctrines that came after several centuries. So that was, if you like, my first semi–conscious religious decision that I wanted to learn more about the Jewish Jesus.  

Elizabeth   

Yeah and I have heard you speak about going up to university as a Unitarian, and ending up studying Arabic because you wanted to make a lot of money in the Gulf. Westminster clearly hadn’t left you solely with, you know, high intellectual aspirations, there were other aspirations going on! The route into studying Arabic and learning about Islam was more accidental than deliberate, by the sound of it. 

Timothy Winter 

Yeah. I mean, by that stage, all of my friends in their teenage years were listening to kind of contemporary opera and Harris and Birtwistle, and going to the Tate Gallery every week. They had emerged from the chrysalis, and they were working in the city or getting proper jobs and actually joining the establishment. I suppose my trajectory at that time was, in Islam we emphasize very strongly the value of intention. Intention matters more than what you actually do, and probably my intentions have never been particularly impeccable. So my options, I took the entrance exam to Cambridge in economics, and then I decided to switch to do Arabic, which for various extraneous reasons I’d taken an interest in in my mid–teens. So looking at the rather intense hothouse economics then being then doled out and the economics faculty in Cambridge, I thought, my God, this is three years of statistics and economic projections that probably will never turn out to be true but I’ll get a job with Citibank at the end of it. So I kind of chickened out and went back into the hard humanities and chose the Arabic studies tripos with a small number of almost necessarily like–minded, unusual students, and didn’t regret it. Although Arabic is difficult, it wasn’t necessarily an easy option. 

Sexuality in the Quran 

Elizabeth  

Yes, and another part of your journey that I’d love to hear about, although obviously talking about it is reasonably personal, was a sense of the way Christianity relates to sexuality versus how Islam does. Would you mind saying a little bit about that, that moment in your life? 

Timothy Winter   

I suppose this also is something which is important to people who come out of the 1960s and the 1970s when the traditional kind of dusty puritanism that was normal in England really throughout the 1950s, the sense of shame and the problematizing of something which is the most elemental aspect of our biological humanity, was the main thing that people were rebelling out about in the 1960s. By the 1970s it had become clear that there needed to be some kind of boundaries, regulation, otherwise people were going to get hurt, especially women. A lot of news coming out about cults in California, free love communes and so forth, and usually it was the women who are on the receiving end of most of those free love experiments. But certainly, I believe that we are designed, whether by evolution or Providence or both, to be inhabitants of the Upper Paleolithic environment, in other words, to be part of the natural world we’re physically organic beings. And on that level, the production of life, and therefore, a certain awe and reverence for the processes whereby life comes to be is normal for human beings. And the earliest of all images are images of sort of fertility goddesses or pregnant women. We’re not quite sure what they were, because they go back to 40,000 BC. And it struck me that the type of religion, not just Christianity, that problematizes that, that emphasizes, for instance, clerical celibacy, that associates Eros with some primordial fault in creation, the idea that reproduction is a consequence of original sin, once we became mortal, we had to reproduce ourselves. Obviously, these are nowadays hotly contested topics in Christianity, but looking at the normative medieval, even very recent, little chapel Christian attitude, struck me that quite a bit of damage could be done to human beings by problematizing something which is the most fundamental drive that we have. Most religions, not just Islam, but Judaism, many schools of Hinduism and so forth, actually have a very positive sense of sacred sexuality, and the leading thinkers produced pillow books and that natural process is regarded as something sacred, rather than a consequence of the loss of the sacred. So that again, in the context of the 1970s was something that was quite significant to me, that Christianity, in many of its forms, although the Reformation had allowed priests to marry, had possibly done quite a bit of damage to human beings by trying to suffocate that which sooner or later will express itself. And perhaps some of these abuse scandals that have hit some of the churches in recent years are evidence of the fact that this is a renegade, very powerful instinct, and you need to provide a space in which it can be celebrated and sacralized, rather than treated as a sort of concession to human nature. 

The road to Islam 

Elizabeth   

Yes, it was really interesting reading that, because it’s not something I think in the public perception of Islam, and part of the reason I like to interview people is to understand where their lived experience is very different from the kind of two–dimensional picture that we paint. But the fact that part of what drew you to Islam was your perception of it, having a healthier understanding of sexuality, was very interesting to me. So there was that piece, there was the Arabic course that drew you into this world; what pushed you over the edge to not just becoming interested in Islam but committing your life to it? 

Timothy Winter   

There wasn’t a kind of road to Damascus moment, or any sort of angelic intervention. It was rather a slow process of migration from a sort of parties of Westminster Abbey to a sort of rather thin, perhaps Unitarian interpretation of Christianity, to a survey of different religious options, because this is the 1970s and people were following Rajneesh and Hare Krishna all over Central London. It was an interesting time when the rebellion against the hard edges of modernity was actually frequently expressed in religious and sacred terms, which has almost been completely lost sight of now. Extinction Rebellion is largely a secular organization as far as I can see, those tendencies have joined the secular bandwagon. Back in the 70s, it wasn’t the case, people were genuinely interested in the sacred, in realistic or dangerous ways. So it was a slow migration, I suppose, from the Trinity, to the idea of kind of pure, Semitic Monotheism as I understood it. And then perhaps a slight experience of being underwhelmed by the Unitarian chapel in Cambridge, the fact that I seem to be about the only person there who wasn’t yet of retirement age, possibly didn’t help. It didn’t look like the charismatic repository of final truth to me. And because I’d started to learn Arabic for quite extraneous, materialistic reasons, the penny started to drop that I seemed to be drawn in the direction of something that originally I hadn’t really had any interest in. I’m not somebody who seeks out exotica or the mystic East. I was never on the hippie trail. I have no interest in something that dislocates me from what I already am in sort of fundamental nature. And one of the things about joining Islam, which I’ve seen with a lot of new Muslims is that, in a strange way, it tends to situate them more strongly in their local identity. Some of the most English people I’ve ever met have been converts to Islam, and that’s one of the interesting, unexpected, unlooked for aspects of it that it doesn’t suddenly turn you into a hand clapping dervish, but relocates you and helps you to see what’s of value in what has been lost in the last 50 years or so, although, of course, with a new set of beliefs. But people in this time where everybody believes in polarities, and Islam is figured as the kind of ‘dark other’ a sort of yellow peril, the antithesis of everything that we hold dear in the West. And of course, we saw that dangerously on our streets just last week with the riots. There are a lot of polarities at the moment across Europe, in particular. Once you get into the reading, you see that actually Islam is probably the closest religion to Christianity, and it may well be that, because of our conservatism, we hold to many things that are traditionally important to Christians, rather more than many churchgoers do. So it’s probably the case that a higher proportion of British Muslims believe in the virgin birth than church going Anglicans. That would be my guess because I talk to church groups, sometimes I’m quite skeptical about some of these traditional stories and miracles.  

So Islam is the only non–Christian religion that has an honored place for Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah, born of a virgin, bearer of a great scripture, somebody who will come again at the end of time, as Judge, which is not the case for if you’re moving into, say, the Hare Krishna, onto Taoism, or into some new age group. And of course, when Islam emerged in the seventh century, many of the first Christians who looked at it with kind of astonishment said, actually, this isn’t a new religion, this is a Christian heresy. If they believe in Jesus and Abraham and the prophets, it’s a kind of Christianity. It’s really weird, stranger than the Arians and some of those other groups that came to be defined as heretical. I don’t see Islam as a Christian heresy, it clearly is a separate religion, but the fact that it has frequently been perceived as such, indicates that actually the gulf that one jumps is not nearly as yawning and terrifying as you might think. So I experienced it as a slow continuum, rather than a sudden bolt from the blue, a sudden changing of my personality and worldview. It was rather subdued, really.  

Elizabeth 

And how did your family react? 

Timothy Winter   

Well, again, we’re talking about 1979 – the heyday of middle–class panic about teenagers joining cults. So of course, they thought, oh, dear, this is exactly what’s happened to our Timmy. And look, he’s not eating bacon for breakfast any longer, but he doesn’t go to the pub, and he doesn’t seem to have girlfriends, and we must get to the bottom of this. So they made some inquiries, and they visited some of the Muslim convert groups that I was associating with at the time. And I think, looking at my mother’s diary, because she wrote all of this down, she wrote 80 volumes of diaries, so I have a kind of window into her mind, I think she was quite reassured when she saw that there were plenty of other sort of middle of the road, middle–class English people at the time who were becoming Muslim and that I wasn’t going to come back with four Sudanese wives and practice some kind of animal sacrifice on the front lawn. Even then, there was a lot of what we now call Islamophobia and misgivings, and this is even before Khomeini, before the whole fundamentalist horror had burst onto people’s awareness. So I think that after a year or so, their anxieties were settled. And then I got married, and they had grandchildren, and things became pretty normal. And I guess it was nice for them to have a child who still believed and respected the old stories that had been important to my ancestors, those stories are basically there in the Quran. So it took a bit of persuading to explain to them that this is actually something that’s in continuity with the other monotheisms, rather than something from planet Neptune that is entirely unrecognizable and rather frightening.  

What do you wish people understood about Islam? 

Elizabeth  

Yes, you’ve touched on a few things about some of the stories that are told about Islam, about sexuality and radical discontinuity with Christianity. For listeners who have very little understanding of Islam, or don’t know any Muslims, what are the key things you wish they understood that might help them when they’re seeking to be people who can listen and engage across these kind of differences? 

Timothy Winter  

Some have not mentioned already. A lot of Christians don’t know that there’s more about the Virgin Mary in the Quran than there is in the Gospels, for instance. Marian parti is very important in the Islamic world. Just yesterday, I was translating a text about the death of the Virgin Mary from a 12th century Central Asian scholar writing in what’s called Middle Turkic, so even in that remote place eight centuries ago, Muslims considered it important to write devotional poetry that would be chanted in devotional settings about things that Christians often think are kind of uniquely theirs. It’s important to recognize that the religion is very family oriented in terms of what we call the ‘organic’ rather than the nuclear family. So even today, in quite humble accommodation in Muslim areas of Britain, you will find grandparents still cared for in the home. This is a very important part of the traditional Muslim ethic, and they play an important part in looking after children. There is also, of course, the prayer five times a day, starting at dawn. We face the Abraham’s House in Mecca and bow to the Lord of the Universe. And that is something that is really the most characteristic watchword of Islam. And mosques everywhere are full, because people actually love these practices. An important thing to realize, is that Muslims continue to be religious because we love what we do. We love our Prophet, we love God – it’s very love based. If you look at classical Muslim devotional literature, you’ll see the principle of love is foremost. Everybody now reads Rumi, for instance, who’s kind of made the leap into the New Age world and is actually the best–selling religious poet in the United States now, even though he was an imam from what’s now Afghanistan. So at the height of the War on terror, Americans still found themselves opening their hearts to this form of traditional Muslim love–based piety. That aspect of the religion, I think, needs to be better understood, because it’s pretty universal. It’s about beauty, it’s about love, compassion, humor. And those texts are absolutely axiomatic across the traditional Islamic world. So sometimes there’s a kind of improper importation of letter versus spirit dichotomy, that Muslims all about lots of complicated rules, like the nasty old rabbis, allegedly, criticized and abrogated by the New Testament writers and that now we’re supposed to be free in the spirit, and that’s much more spiritual and real. I don’t think that’s essentially an antisemitic trope, because Jewish literature is full of ecstatic references to the God that one loves, and the dancing rabbis, for instance, are a familiar phenomenon. Rabbis seem to dance a lot more than Church of England vicars do! We need to overcome that binary to see that there’s a lot of joy, happiness, love, in those Semitic traditions. And I certainly found that to be the case in Islam as well, that throughout its literature. I’m a lecturer in Islamic studies, I spend my life in the libraries, and I find that joy, that love, that preoccupation with human and natural beauty to be something that is constant for Muslims and is often not understood by outsiders. 

The core differences between Christianity and Islam 

Elizabeth  

Yes, thank you, that’s beautiful. And I kind of want to ask you about the key differences as well. One of my one of my frustrations with some of the way kind of interfaith engagement goes is because I think we have a really faulty theology of difference, we see it as a threat, not a gift. We try and elide difference and only focus on huge commonalities, which there are. But I’m thinking particularly of something I read where you were talking about your early encounter with Muhammad, and through a text that wasn’t particularly helpful about him, but the sense of Muhammad as someone who stood up against oppression. And use this phrase, “Like Che Guevara with God”, and I wonder if there is something, not that there’s necessarily a threat in it, but the figure of Jesus and the figure of Muhammad are different, right? And that’s part of what I think that’s some of the tension is for those of us looking on at the religion to help to understand that figure better. 

Timothy Winter   

It’s complex, of course, because the debate is ongoing about exactly what Jesus made of the Roman occupation, of traditional Jewish apparent collaboration with the Roman occupation. Some think he was actually a zealot, and that was airbrushed out of the texts later on, for fear of panicking the Roman authorities. And I’m not really a New Testament expert, I can’t comment on that. But clearly in prophetic religion, there is a willingness to stick one’s neck out and to make trouble when confronted by oppression and tyranny. And you see that a lot in the Hebrew prophets, and perhaps Christ, when He overturns the tables of the money changes in the temple, is making that kind of statement. It must have been quite a major operation, I guess. Looking at the Christian scriptures as they exist today, many Muslims confess themselves slightly disappointed that Christ is living in his own country, which is under a brutal foreign military occupation, and he doesn’t seem to be phased by that or saying anything against it. He even says, you know, “Help the legionary to carry his burden”, “Resist, not him that is evil”, “Turn the other cheek”, in ways which seem to be commendable, but when it’s somebody else’s cheek that’s being smacked, you have a basic moral responsibility to intervene. So that pacifist portrait of Christ in the Gospel sometimes seems a little bit thin and morally disappointing. I remember actually, going back to my school days, our headmaster speaking from the pulpit at Westminster Abbey, was talking about the, “Render unto Caesar, that which is Caesar’s”, moment in the Gospels, and he actually preached against it. He said, “This is wrong. This is evasive. He’s not being frank. It’s unclear.” And he should speak out frankly, even if he endangers himself against the terrible things that are being done to his to his people: the subversion of their religions, mass crucifixions, the horrors of Roman occupation.  

So there is something in the sort of idea of sort of hippie Christ wandering around Galilee with the daffodil, preaching peace and love, that certainly from the point of view the 1970s, which is the kind of aftermath of the anti–colonial revolts and one of the things we were into in school was opposing apartheid South Africa and South Africa’s occupation of Namibia, and a gospel response to that didn’t seem to be quite right to us, and that something a little bit more militant seemed to be morally appropriate. That is, after all, what we’ve always done as a country, whatever has been the message of the Gospel preached in the churches, we’ve always had a doctrine of just war. And I think that’s a tension within some Christian theology, that the person of Christ in the Gospels is unmistakably pacifist, and yet, following Augustine, the church came up with actually quite morally impressive ideas about just war: that you can defend yourself, you can defend the weak, you can fight against oppressors. So that tendency, I suppose, is what the Prophet is already articulating, that if you’re facing extermination at the hands of an evil pagan tyranny, you can defend yourself, which is what he did. So, I found that story liberative, I don’t know if it’s Che Guevara, something that spoke to me rather more than the somewhat bloodless and faint message on politics that seemed to be conveyed by the Gospels. 

The shift in the spiritual landscape: Are people more open to Islam? 

Elizabeth   

Yes, that’s helpful, thank you. I wanted to ask, we started with hearing about the trajectory of the kind of Congregationalist ministers of your grandparents’ generation, and this modernist kind of mid–century, 1960s rebellion against that, and then this 1970s seeking after all kinds of sources of the sacred that you were swept up in. I’m really interested in what you think is happening right now, because I am feeling this – certainly from when I took over at Theos, 12 or 13 years ago to now – this huge shift in how open people are to talk and think about spirituality and to even kind of express metaphysical yearnings. And I still don’t know where we are, but there’s this question about whether the few big public conversions, particularly to Orthodox Christianity, but others, are happening, is there a new desire for tradition? Is there a desire for rootedness or reconnection with ancestors? One, I wanted to ask if you’re seeing it in Islam as well, is there a spike in conversions? And if not, generally where are we in this moment with the spiritual landscape? 

Timothy Winter   

I think that,  it even seems to be a scientific view that religiosity is kind of normative to human beings, and that its absence is almost a dysfunction, or even, I saw a cheeky piece in The Daily Telegraph which said that actually, atheism is a mental illness, because it’s not what the brain is designed for. We’re designed to make sense of the world, to flourish and to have children. If we believe that there’s a meaning behind things and that relationships are sacred, that the dead are honored and so forth, since the Stone Age, we’ve all been religious, and we’ve all perceived the deep, transcendent mystery in virgin nature, in particular. I don’t think that can be extirpated from human beings. I think there’s a deep disillusion with established religion, and sometimes that’s almost a kind of prophetic desire to turn over the tables of the money changers and to say your reverence talk about something real, please! You have so many amazing things in your scripture that can inspire us, why are you giving us this very thin gruel based on various late 20th century liberal ideas which you believe you found in your Scripture? We want something a little bit more spiky, controversial, counter cultural. I think the young in particular look to religion as being prophetic, trouble making and disruptive, because they can see that the modern world is in deep trouble. It’s unstable. It hasn’t delivered on many of the promises of humanism. We have a major war going on now in Europe, in which, unfortunately, rival church hierarchies are deeply implicated. We have worsening calamities in the Middle East. We have the rise of various forms of dangerous religionized nationalisms in the Islamic world, in India, among many Trump voters, nobody is really off the hook when it comes to the political mis–instrumentalization of religion. That puts a lot of people off.  

But there’s also a sense that we are failing as a species, even though the population crisis is an example of that, we’re not replicating ourselves. In Scotland now the average woman has 1.3 babies, which is historically unprecedented. In South Korea, it’s even worse, which, even from a secular point of view, has to indicate that as a species, we’re failing. Not only are we threatening the habitat and the existence of countless thousands of other species who also – this is a Quranic teaching – are nations like yourselves and have the right to praise God in their own way. Not only are we guilty of a kind of genocide against other living things, sentient beings, that share the planet with us, but we’re even not good to ourselves in that our own species is in danger. We’re all getting old; we’re not having babies. There’s a profound dysfunction going on at the moment, and this all seems to be part of a larger problem, the desacralizing of nature can’t be separated from the climate crisis. Artificial Intelligence raises very alarming questions about the possible replacement of humanity, and can there be artificial intelligence? What happens if the internet wakes up one morning and says, “Well, I’ve got a lot of information about different religions, and I’ve decided that I want to be Zoroastrian, so please explain how I practice that.” All these completely new, challenging, mind–boggling things are being chucked at young people in particular. And there’s a deep skepticism about the modern project. There are too many existential threats, and none of them are coming from religion, really. So there is a sense that yeah, people do need to get back to that primordial, Paleolithic sense of the imminent sanctity of nature, which is evoked in the Quran in particular, which is constantly telling us to look at God’s signs in nature and to look at the way Heaven and Earth have been created, and the fact Muslim worship is directed by the movements of the solar system. The sun and the moon dictate the times of our services and our fasting month. So yes, I think a lot of people are alert now to the fact that they are naturally religiously thirsty, and we have seen in Muslim communities a big spike in conversions. So, in our local mosque in Cambridge, we had 205 conversions registered last year, which is twice as many as the previous year. And since, paradoxically perhaps, the Gaza thing erupted, we’ve had also a number of conversions coming in from different communities, from every possible background. So converts were a significant part of the British Muslim community now there are maybe 150,000 or more active converts, and I suspect that they form part of a larger pattern of people moving into traditional forms of religion. You mentioned the growth in baptisms in the Orthodox churches. It may well be that something analogous is happening in Islam, and quite possibly in other traditions as well, I don’t know. But yeah, there is a sense of secular crisis, which is making people think more respectfully about faith. 

Insights from Islam on how to engage with different people 

Elizabeth   

Yes. I want to end by asking, what is the key thing you’ve learned about how we engage with people who are different from ourselves? Whether it’s from your Islamic teaching or just from your experiences in life, for those listening thinking, gosh, we are getting more divided, I struggle to see people different from myself as fully human sometimes I think, if we’re all honest, deep down, what helps us? 

Timothy Winter   

Well, some of those old religious stories, the idea that we have common ancestors, Adam and Eve, is really important. Everybody is a sibling, several times removed. The idea, which is shared by the monotheisms that we’re made in the image of God, conveys a certain what in Islamic theology is called iśmat al–ādamiyyīn the inviolability of Adamic descent. People are intrinsically inviolable. They may then go on to commit mass murder or whatever, but in themselves, they partake of the inviolability of the nobility of Adamic descent. There’s Quranic verses which are important to me, such as the one that says, “Mankind, we have created you male and female and have made you tribes and nations that you might know one another.” That’s an important verse for me, that the diversity of the world is not some kind of Tower of Babel curse, the tower of Babel is not in the Quran, but it’s in fact a sign that God wishes his image to be presented in a rainbow–like diversity of different forms and the uniqueness of every individual. And again, Muslim poets like Rumi, always talking about how much you can learn about the divine just by considering the human face. Not just the beauty of human beings, but also the deep mystery of the presence of a soul, which is conveyed in the formation of the human face. And I think that kind of sacred humanism is something that has to be cultivated in all of the religions, which have all fallen prey to stupid essentialism, and fundamentalism, and nationalism, and Islamism in a way that is very untimely, given the human sacred hunger at the moment, that we need to return to that idea of the sanctity of human beings and the inviolability of everybody who is created in God’s image. I think that theology needs to be resurrected as a matter of urgency. 

Elizabeth   

Tim Winter, thank you so much for speaking to me on The Sacred. 

Timothy Winter 

Thank you so much, it’s been an honour.

 


Interested in this? Share it on social media. Join our monthly e–newsletter to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our Supporter Programme to find out how you can help our work. 

]]>
hello@theosthinktank.co.uk (Elizabeth Oldfield) https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/16/converting-to-islam-and-the-pursuit-of-meaning-with-dr-timothy-winter-abdal-hakim-murad
The space to believe is being squeezed https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/10/the-space-to-believe-is-being-squeezed Thu, 10 Oct 2024 10:51:00 +0100 The space to believe is being squeezed

Andrew Graystone reflects on our conversation with Prof. Stephen Schneck, who says that political identity is replacing the sense of community in America and around the world. 10/10/2024

Four weeks to the day from the United States presidential election, Professor Stephen Schneck has warned that religion is a polarising factor in the US and that religious freedom is in retreat around the world. Stephen Schneck is chair of the US Commission on International Religious Freedom, an agency of the US Congress. He previously served the Obama administration as a member of the White House Advisory Council for Faith–Based and Neighbourhood Partnerships, and was also chair of the Catholics for Biden campaign.  

Stephen Schneck was in conversation with Revd Dr Giles Fraser, at Theos, the religion and society think tank, on Tuesday 8 October. He said: “I see freedom of religion and belief in retreat around the world. It’s not just people who belong to organised religion who are being squeezed, but people who practice indigenous religion and even atheism.” 

There are two main reasons for the growing pressure on religions, he said. The first is that the rise of authoritarian politics squeezes out the space for other forms of authority. Belief in an outside power, or in scripture, present a challenge to authoritarian regimes. The second source of pressure is the unfolding of globalisation. He identifies “a sense of dislocation” that makes people feel so insecure in their own religion that they become antagonistic to other communities of belief.  

He sees America as “deeply split”, not only on partisan lines, but also by class, race and poverty. All of these factors play into the ‘culture wars’, the polarisation of US society. “There’s no way that this level of polarisation can be sustained, either in the US or elsewhere in the West,”, Professor Schneck said. “Without bridging it, governance is impossible. The next president, whoever he or she is, must reach out to the other side.”  Schneck pronounced himself ultimately hopeful. “The system may come up to the precipice but it will then have to be resolved.” 

Asked how religion is playing into the US election, Professor Schneck said that the religious communities in the US are equally prone to polarisation. According to his estimate the Roman Catholic church roughly mirrors the US population in being split 48:48 between Democrat and Republican parties. He feels that white evangelicals are divided about 80:20. Both presidential candidates are appealing to religion to mobilise voters. 

“The role of religion is a bit less than it was in the past,”, he said for many religious people, the thinking is that irrespective of his personal flaws, he [Donald Trump] is associated with a tradition that will strengthen the role of religion.” Professor Schneck said that some evangelicals would vote for Trump on purely pragmatic grounds, such as his role in appointing conservative–leaning Supreme Court Justices. In truth, he said, the vast majority of Americans don’t know in detail the policy positions of the candidates. Partisanship is an identity that people have taken on, and through that identity they look at a range of issues. 

Around the world, Schneck sees a blurring between secular and religious leadership. As the grip of traditional religions has diminished, other identities have taken its place. Politicised identity replaces the sense of community; it fills the gap left by the decline of community associations including faith groups. “Our anchors have been washed away,”, said Professor Schneck. “Rootlessness affects so much of the contemporary world, and that contributes to the rise of political polarisation.” He described India as a telling example, in which the rise of religious nationalism associated with the BJP has closed out the space for people to espouse other religions. Prime Minister Narandra Modi has stepped into this space – a political leader offering quasi–religious leadership.  

“Faith communities need to proceed practically, and pragmatically,” he said. Efforts to rebuild community can be positive, but they can also be horribly negative. It was the sense of alienation and rootlessness that created a vacuum in Europe in the 1930s.  

We need to show people the whole of what religion is – not just a part. His advice for church leaders? “More listening; more humility.” 

A political philosopher by training, Stephen Schneck retired from The Catholic University of America in 2018, after more than thirty years as a professor. He served the administration of President Barack Obama as a member of the White House Advisory Council for Faith–Based and Neighbourhood Partnerships, and was chair of the Catholics for Biden campaign. Professor Schneck is now chair of the US Commission on International Religious Freedom, an agency of the US Congress. He was speaking to Revd Dr Giles Fraser, an Anglican priest and broadcaster in front of an invited audience at Theos, the religion and society think tank, on Tuesday 8 October 2024.  

 


Interested in this? Share it on social media. Join our monthly e–newsletter to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our Supporter Programme to find out how you can help our work.

]]>
andrew.graystone@theosthinktank.co.uk (Andrew Graystone) https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/10/the-space-to-believe-is-being-squeezed
This XML file does not appear to have any style information associated with it. The document tree is shown below.
<rss xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/" xmlns:wfw="http://wellformedweb.org/CommentAPI/" version="2.0">
<channel>
<title>Theos - Comment</title>
<link>http://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment</link>
<description>
<![CDATA[ Insights and reflections that enrich the conversation about religion and society. ]]>
</description>
<language>en-gb</language>
<pubDate>Sat, 14 Dec 2024 07:49:43 +0000</pubDate>
<item>
<title>Christmas Contemplations </title>
<link>https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/12/12/christmas-contemplations</link>
<pubDate>Thu, 12 Dec 2024 11:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
<description>
<![CDATA[ <figure><img src="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/assets/generated/articles/page/94dc9982f427d29054dfa108e3c8f543.jpg" alt="Christmas Contemplations " width="600" /></figure><p><em>A selection of short reflections written ahead of Christmas 2024 by members of the Theos team. 12/12/2024</em></p><p><strong>Let Your Choices Reflect Your Hopes&nbsp;</strong></p><p>By Andrew Graystone&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="2036512572" paraeid="{2a828ebd-a74e-4c81-9fbf-01070361412a}{195}"><em>God, who said, </em><em>&ldquo;Let light shine out of darkness,&rdquo; made his light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of God&rsquo;s glory displayed in the face of Chris</em>t.&rdquo; &ndash; 2 Corinthians 4:6&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="1557649551" paraeid="{2a828ebd-a74e-4c81-9fbf-01070361412a}{213}">It&rsquo;s said that human beings can survive about five weeks without food, and about five days without water, but we can&rsquo;t survive five minutes without hope.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="201347399" paraeid="{2a828ebd-a74e-4c81-9fbf-01070361412a}{225}">Of course, hope comes in different shapes and sizes.</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="201347399" paraeid="{2a828ebd-a74e-4c81-9fbf-01070361412a}{225}">I hope the sun shines for the wedding on Saturday.<br />I hope Stockport County will beat Exeter at the weekend.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="1371724163" paraeid="{2a828ebd-a74e-4c81-9fbf-01070361412a}{249}">Then there&rsquo;s the altogether more serious stuff.</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="1371724163" paraeid="{2a828ebd-a74e-4c81-9fbf-01070361412a}{249}">I hope I can make my money stretch to the end of the month.<br />I hope she makes it through the night.<br />I hope it works out this time.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="1513826893" paraeid="{77e683db-2462-46cf-a8fb-de57a6158056}{24}">Is hope any more than optimism &ndash; <em>a glass&ndash;half&ndash;full</em> personality trait that comes naturally to some but not to others? I think it is. Christian believers are amongst those who choose hope, even when cynicism might be a lot easier. We can also cultivate hope, practice it, and make it a habit of character. Without being Panglossian, we can decide to orient ourselves towards a future that is good.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="149697785" paraeid="{77e683db-2462-46cf-a8fb-de57a6158056}{44}">On the basis of that choice we can live into the best possible future, not the worst one. In his autobiography, Nelson Mandela urged people to &lsquo;Let your choices reflect your hopes, not your fears&rsquo;.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="1267170226" paraeid="{77e683db-2462-46cf-a8fb-de57a6158056}{56}">The season of Advent calls us to be realistic about the present darkness. But it also gives us glimpse into God&rsquo;s future. It is precisely because of the darkness of this time of year, and the darkness of our world, that the rows of lights strung up on the houses all down my street seem so defiantly hopeful.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="1944737868" paraeid="{77e683db-2462-46cf-a8fb-de57a6158056}{68}">It is a matter of choice to believe that the light at the end of the tunnel is getting nearer, not further away. Illuminated by that tiny light, we are called to the work of liberation in the mess and the muddle of our present world. We work to set free people who are oppressed and dress the wounds of people who are hurting.&nbsp; We seek to bring hope to people who don&rsquo;t have much of their own. It&rsquo;s our choice to enjoy God today, and to live in the light of the freedom that we believe is coming tomorrow.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>A Whisper in the Turmoil&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" xml:="" paraid="1197938541" paraeid="{7c7abbce-5298-4c7b-aff9-dbb9b255ee5a}{246}">By George Lapshynov&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="197925682" paraeid="{77e683db-2462-46cf-a8fb-de57a6158056}{94}">In the five days before Christmas, one of the vesper hymns of the Orthodox Church proclaims: <em>&ldquo;The prophecies of all the prophets have been fulfilled, for Christ is born in the city of Bethlehem of the pure daughter of God&rdquo;.&nbsp;</em></p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="1362081903" paraeid="{77e683db-2462-46cf-a8fb-de57a6158056}{116}">The miracle of God&rsquo;s incarnation marks the culmination of centuries of anticipation. But for those in Judaea at that historic moment, it was a time of profound uncertainty &ndash; politically volatile, economically precarious and spiritually fractured. The Roman occupation was enforced by a tyrannical king, while within Judaism, ideological and theological divisions ran deep.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="784556148" paraeid="{77e683db-2462-46cf-a8fb-de57a6158056}{154}">Yet amid the crises, God&rsquo;s plan of redemption was quietly unfolding. As Judaea teetered on the brink of collapse, Christ was born, as St Paul would later write, &ldquo;like a thief in the night&rdquo; (1 Thess. 5:2).&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="364388039" paraeid="{77e683db-2462-46cf-a8fb-de57a6158056}{174}">As the star rose over Bethlehem and the Magi set out on their journey, many were lamenting the ruinous state of their world. As the archangel Gabriel delivered his message to the Virgin Mary and the Holy Spirit descended upon her who was to become the ark of the New Covenant, Herod was plotting another vanity project. And while the Saviour was being born, most people, absorbed in the mundane activities of life, carried on, oblivious to the divine mystery unfolding in their midst.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="1400993039" paraeid="{77e683db-2462-46cf-a8fb-de57a6158056}{219}">Christians like to imagine that the whole world stood still in wonder that night, captivated by the angelic chorus. In truth, it stood still only for those who had &ldquo;ears to hear&rdquo; (Matt. 11:15). For the rest, life went on as usual.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="1712513168" paraeid="{77e683db-2462-46cf-a8fb-de57a6158056}{248}">Two thousand years later, we live in an age marked by its own turbulence &ndash; rife with cost&ndash;of&ndash;living crisis, looming global war, and assisted suicide debate. And while our own leaders are no Herods, it very much seems that we will never get a break from history&rsquo;s cycles of turmoil.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="1472679953" paraeid="{1eccf254-2842-4f0c-a806-16d1e65f7b54}{31}">Thankfully, Christmas reminds us that our hope is not in the fleeting promises of political leaders, nor should we look to them for our salvation (Ps. 146:3). The time to pause is now. God, who works unceasingly in the world, is about to become man so that we may become God. So let us be very still: we might just catch a whisper of the distant hymns of the angelic choir and taste the faint perfume of myrrh and frankincense in the air as the Magi draw near to worship the divine made flesh.&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>No Strings Attached&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" xml:="" paraid="743577943" paraeid="{f00f8a2f-db4c-4c96-b843-ceac52dea452}{181}">By Rosie Bromiley&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="1450376142" paraeid="{1eccf254-2842-4f0c-a806-16d1e65f7b54}{147}">Only last week our television plunged onto the floor, the screen irrevocably scarred with black static. But thanks to a friend&rsquo;s kindness, we were offered their unused spare. Dad came home cradling the new screen, wrapped in the &lsquo;swaddling cloths&rsquo; of old towels and bubble wrap. He echoed how our friend had threateningly commanded, &ldquo;Don&rsquo;t even think of giving me anything for it! No chocolates, no wine, nothing!&rdquo;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="1733827259" paraeid="{1eccf254-2842-4f0c-a806-16d1e65f7b54}{167}">The parallels are obvious here (though the 24&ndash;inch display Toshiba isn&rsquo;t exactly the Son of God)! But giving to each other at Christmas is where we showcase our feeble yet radical imitations of God&rsquo;s love.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="1320297480" paraeid="{1eccf254-2842-4f0c-a806-16d1e65f7b54}{221}">Gifts have received bad press this year. Cabinet ministers were <a scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/sep/19/starmers-free-tickets-for-arsenal-and-taylor-swift-part-of-job-says-minister-jonathan-reynolds" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">criticised for accepting &lsquo;freebies&rsquo; from donors</a> including clothing, glasses, and Taylor Swift concert tickets. The implicit source of the outcry: what do these donors get in return? The implications of such a question seemingly reek of corruption.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="774624634" paraeid="{1eccf254-2842-4f0c-a806-16d1e65f7b54}{236}">Sociologist Marcel Mauss identified human patterns of giving in his 1925 essay <em>The Gift</em>. In short, if I give you something, there is an unspoken obligation for you to return the favour. Of course, this is not just about physical presents. We give our time, our service, our attention. Principles of reciprocity become relational, binding our communities together but not always for good.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="746731310" paraeid="{7c7cb100-ed64-474a-8b62-22deefb6c042}{9}">For years, money expert Martin Lewis has been all too aware of the dangers of reciprocity. In <a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://youtu.be/xZbshtbdVGw?feature=shared&amp;t=168" target="_blank"><em>The Martin Lewis Money Show Live</em></a> from 2023, he advised against excessive giving, encouraging viewers to make &lsquo;Christmas pre&ndash;NUPs&rsquo; (No Unnecessary Presents) saying, &ldquo;Sometimes the best gift is releasing others from the obligation of having to give to you.&rdquo;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="893405240" paraeid="{7c7cb100-ed64-474a-8b62-22deefb6c042}{22}">How heartbreakingly easy it is to taint what should be kindness. Our cherished connections to each other are susceptible to be stained either by ulterior motives and selfish expectation of reward, or we are crushed by the duty to reciprocate.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="1234005077" paraeid="{7c7cb100-ed64-474a-8b62-22deefb6c042}{76}">It&rsquo;s why the incorruptible gift of the Word made flesh is so powerful. Jesus was given to humanity out of the relentless, free&ndash;flowing stream of love that pours from the Father to save us from death (John 3:16). He did so without expectation of repayment. No matter how hard we try, we always fall short of fully returning the favour. Christmas is a precious opportunity to defy these patterns of obligation. Instead, we can give with untethered generosity and receive in humility as we mimic an otherworldly love.&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>What Hides Behind Christmas?&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" xml:="" paraid="479929287" paraeid="{f9b66b6b-d7c5-4c52-8c29-b8ffb16e8c86}{172}">By Madeleine Pennington&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="1312503691" paraeid="{3e89dccc-89f4-41dd-9e62-9621a72733e2}{57}">Christmas might be the most wonderful time of year, but it can also be a stressful carnival. Your favourite present&ndash;to&ndash;be is currently someone else&rsquo;s panic that you haven&rsquo;t been &lsquo;crossed off the list&rsquo; yet. What began as a careful budget is perhaps already a strained overdraft. Every roast turkey represents a farmer&rsquo;s busiest time of the year. And so many of these burdens are hidden &ndash; whether in a lunch break, before sunrise, or before the King&rsquo;s Speech.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="615242516" paraeid="{3e89dccc-89f4-41dd-9e62-9621a72733e2}{70}">Much of the work of the first Christmas is also hidden to us now. Some of it has simply been lost to time. I wonder how much of Mary&rsquo;s pregnancy was over&ndash;shadowed by pelvic girdle pain; how Joseph planned for the lost income that would no doubt result from a long trip to Bethlehem; who cleaned up the stable after Jesus arrived.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="370345014" paraeid="{3e89dccc-89f4-41dd-9e62-9621a72733e2}{83}">Deeper still, though, another kind of work was happening &ndash; not made by human hands. The Bible talks of all babies in the womb being &ldquo;taught&hellip; wisdom in that secret place&rdquo;. Did even Mary fully grasp what extraordinary Wisdom was growing within her? Or did she sometimes doubt the truth of that strange encounter with an angel, many months previously before her belly had started to grow? Was she, in fact, the one being taught in secret? And who else? How were Joseph, the innkeeper, the shepherds, the wise men, all being prepared &ndash; no doubt, without knowing it &ndash; to encounter the &ldquo;firstborn of all creation&rdquo;?&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="1389428389" paraeid="{3e89dccc-89f4-41dd-9e62-9621a72733e2}{96}">Christmas is the celebration of something unexpected bursting into sight and touch &ndash; the Word becoming flesh &ndash; and with it, the recognition that a living God continues to break unexpectedly into our own time and place. But before that, there is preparation. Where, then, might the hidden work of God be in our own lives this year? For, in the words of Rowan Williams,&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="851842067" paraeid="{3e89dccc-89f4-41dd-9e62-9621a72733e2}{109}"><em>He will come, will come, <br />will come like crying in the night,<br />like blood, like breaking,<br />as the earth writhes to toss him free.<br />He will come like child.&nbsp;</em></p> <p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="851842067" paraeid="{3e89dccc-89f4-41dd-9e62-9621a72733e2}{109}"><em></em></p> <hr><p scxw222212516="" bcx8"="" paraid="851842067" paraeid="{3e89dccc-89f4-41dd-9e62-9621a72733e2}{109}"><strong style="">Interested in this? Share it on social media.&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/E9E17CAB71AC7464" style=""><strong>Join our monthly e&ndash;newsletter</strong></a><strong style="">&nbsp;to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/about/support-us" style=""><strong>Supporter Programme</strong></a><strong style="">&nbsp;to find out how you can help our work.</strong></p> ]]>
</description>
<author>hello@theosthinktank.co.uk (The Theos Team)</author>
<guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/12/12/christmas-contemplations</guid>
</item>
<item>
<title>How has our evolutionary past shaped us? In conversation with Harvey Whitehouse</title>
<link>https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/12/10/how-has-our-evolutionary-past-shaped-us-in-conversation-with-harvey-whitehouse</link>
<pubDate>Tue, 10 Dec 2024 11:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
<description>
<![CDATA[ <figure><img src="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/assets/generated/articles/page/1d9f1d897c912923a94e011a4e4e7ec0.jpg" alt="How has our evolutionary past shaped us? In conversation with Harvey Whitehouse" width="600" /></figure><p><em>Nick Spencer speaks with Harvey Whitehouse, Chair of Social Anthropology at the University of Oxford. 10/12/2024</em></p><p><iframe src="https://readingourtimes.podigee.io/75-new-episode/embed?context=external&amp;theme=default" style="border: 0" frameborder="0" height="100" width="100%"></iframe></p> <p>The claim that evolution can help us understand, even explain, the modern world and modern mind has not always had a happy history, veering between overclaim and catastrophe. But the opposite idea &ndash; that everything is culture and nothing nature &ndash; is hardly more convincing.</p> <p>So, can we threat this needle? Can we have nuanced and realistic understanding of the impact of evolution on us today without going down the rabbit hole of determinism.<br /><br />So, what impact has evolution had on us &ndash; our communities and societies, our morality and our religion.<br /><br />Purchase Harvey&rsquo;s book <a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.amazon.co.uk/Inheritance-Evolutionary-Origins-Modern-World/dp/1529152224/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0" target="_blank">here</a>.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <hr><p><strong>Interested in this? Share it on social media.&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/E9E17CAB71AC7464"><strong>Join our monthly e&ndash;newsletter</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/about/support-us"><strong>Supporter Programme</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to find out how you can help our work.</strong></p> ]]>
</description>
<author>nick.spencer@theosthinktank.co.uk (Nick Spencer)</author>
<guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/12/10/how-has-our-evolutionary-past-shaped-us-in-conversation-with-harvey-whitehouse</guid>
</item>
<item>
<title>What is (The) Enlightenment? In conversation with Jonathan Clark</title>
<link>https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/12/03/what-is-the-enlightenment-in-conversation-with-jonathan-clark</link>
<pubDate>Tue, 03 Dec 2024 11:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
<description>
<![CDATA[ <figure><img src="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/assets/generated/articles/page/1d9f1d897c912923a94e011a4e4e7ec0.jpg" alt="What is (The) Enlightenment? In conversation with Jonathan Clark" width="600" /></figure><p><em>Nick Spencer speaks with Historian Jonathan Clark. 03/12/2024</em></p><p><iframe src="https://readingourtimes.podigee.io/74-new-episode/embed?context=external&amp;theme=default" style="border: 0" frameborder="0" height="100" width="100%"></iframe></p> <p>The Enlightenment has become weaponised over recent years. Numerous public figures, not all of them historians, have lined up to state defiantly that it needs protecting from&hellip; postmodernity? populism? religion?&hellip; take your pick.</p> <p>But what is &ndash; or was &ndash; The Enlightenment? What are we being called to defend here? Is The Enlightenment actually a thing? Was it even &ldquo;a thing&rdquo; in the first place? And if not, when did we start talking about it, and why?<br /><br />Purchase a copy of Jonathan&rsquo;s book <a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.amazon.co.uk/Enlightenment-Idea-Its-History/dp/0198916280" target="_blank">here</a>.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <hr><p><strong>Interested in this? Share it on social media.&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/E9E17CAB71AC7464"><strong>Join our monthly e&ndash;newsletter</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/about/support-us"><strong>Supporter Programme</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to find out how you can help our work.</strong></p> ]]>
</description>
<author>nick.spencer@theosthinktank.co.uk (Nick Spencer)</author>
<guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/12/03/what-is-the-enlightenment-in-conversation-with-jonathan-clark</guid>
</item>
<item>
<title>Recovering from the Riots</title>
<link>https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/12/02/recovering-from-the-riots</link>
<pubDate>Mon, 02 Dec 2024 12:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
<description>
<![CDATA[ <figure><img src="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/assets/generated/articles/page/8972e5bd61775d677e1e387b2daedb61.jpg" alt="Recovering from the Riots" width="600" /></figure><p><em>Hannah Rich introduces her report exploring the response of local churches to the riots of summer 2024. How can our country and communities heal? 02/11/2024</em></p><p>It is now almost four months, or 120 days, since the most extensive outbreak of riots for a decade swept across England, sparked by the murder of three young girls in Southport. Put another way, that&rsquo;s 120 daily news cycles that we have moved through since then, the pace of which makes the fractious heat of late July and early August seem like a dim memory on a snowy day in November.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222556924="" bcx8"="" paraid="588852624" paraeid="{305d623d-1b17-4e23-a445-2972c7813be9}{81}">Our new report <em><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/research/2024/12/02/disunited-kingdom-local-churches-and-the-riots-of-summer-2024" target="_blank">Disunited Kingdom?</a></em> explores the response and contribution of local churches in areas affected by the riots, both immediately and over the longer term in rebuilding communities. In September 2024, we interviewed 16 church leaders in 11 different places across England where there was significant rioting, including locations where hotels and mosques were attacked.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222556924="" bcx8"="" paraid="2117412727" paraeid="{305d623d-1b17-4e23-a445-2972c7813be9}{115}">We found that churches were well&ndash;placed to respond in several ways. Firstly, they were able to leverage their strong community networks to work with other faith and activism groups locally. Through these, church leaders were often pre&ndash;emptively aware of the coming riots and thus able to offer solidarity and support to mosques and other local targets of violence.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222556924="" bcx8"="" paraid="238799774" paraeid="{305d623d-1b17-4e23-a445-2972c7813be9}{123}">Secondly, they drew on their institutional relationships with local police and local government. Coupled with their connection to other faith groups, this meant churches were well positioned to share reliable information with their communities and vice versa.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222556924="" bcx8"="" paraid="1975551930" paraeid="{305d623d-1b17-4e23-a445-2972c7813be9}{129}">Thirdly, they maintained a trusted presence in the community, even when this was challenged or threatened by the riots themselves. Where the church could not fulfil its intuitive response of being a place of safety when the buildings were literally at the centre of the violence, communities still found ways of supporting vulnerable congregation members and making their presence felt.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222556924="" bcx8"="" paraid="171642217" paraeid="{305d623d-1b17-4e23-a445-2972c7813be9}{137}">Lastly, churches used their convening power to draw the community together for vigils, prayer events and moments of much&ndash;needed reflection and contemplation in the aftermath of the riots. Several of the clergy stressed that, while finding the words to do so was not easy, they had felt it important to pray for the victims and perpetrators alike, because all are part of the community they serve, and all are loved by God.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222556924="" bcx8"="" paraid="1297652710" paraeid="{305d623d-1b17-4e23-a445-2972c7813be9}{147}">There are lessons to learn from these experiences, about the causes of the riots and what preventative measures might be developed going forward. From this, we offer policy recommendations on cohesion and resilience policy, community engagement, youth provision, education, community spaces, mediation and the longevity of funding structures.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222556924="" bcx8"="" paraid="468652646" paraeid="{305d623d-1b17-4e23-a445-2972c7813be9}{165}">The report begins with a quote from Paul Lynch&rsquo;s Booker Prize&ndash;winning novel Prophet Song:&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222556924="" bcx8"="" paraid="1630980055" paraeid="{305d623d-1b17-4e23-a445-2972c7813be9}{177}"><em>&ldquo;What is sung by the prophets is but the same song sung across time&hellip; that the world is always ending over and over again in one place but not another and that the end of the world is always a local event, it comes to your country and visits your town and knocks on the door of your house and becomes to others but some distant warning, a brief report on the news, an echo of events that has passed into folklore.&rdquo;&nbsp;</em></p> <p scxw222556924="" bcx8"="" paraid="515586598" paraeid="{305d623d-1b17-4e23-a445-2972c7813be9}{189}">In order to heal, as communities and as a country, from the events of this summer, it is important that they do not too quickly become &ldquo;but an echo passed into folklore&rdquo;. If there is one message that came through in every interview with a church leader in this research, it was the hope that we do not rush to find easy solutions but rather engage in the deep listening needed to genuinely restore fractured lives and communities. Our hope is that this report will equip and encourage policymakers and churches alike to begin that process.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw222556924="" bcx8"="" paraid="515586598" paraeid="{305d623d-1b17-4e23-a445-2972c7813be9}{189}">You can read the full report <a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/research/2024/12/02/disunited-kingdom-local-churches-and-the-riots-of-summer-2024" target="_blank">here.</a></p> <p scxw222556924="" bcx8"="" paraid="515586598" paraeid="{305d623d-1b17-4e23-a445-2972c7813be9}{189}">&nbsp;</p> <hr><p><strong>Interested in this? Share it on social media.&nbsp;</strong></p> <p><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/E9E17CAB71AC7464"><strong>Join our monthly e&ndash;newsletter</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/about/support-us"><strong>Supporter Programme</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to find out how you can help our work.</strong></p> <p>&nbsp;</p> ]]>
</description>
<author>hannah.rich@theosthinktank.co.uk (Hannah Rich)</author>
<guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/12/02/recovering-from-the-riots</guid>
</item>
<item>
<title>Solidarity and social justice: the left and assisted dying</title>
<link>https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/28/solidarity-and-social-justice-the-left-and-assisted-dying</link>
<pubDate>Thu, 28 Nov 2024 10:11:00 +0000</pubDate>
<description>
<![CDATA[ <figure><img src="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/assets/generated/articles/page/ac3ea9de66114ed5e331d3ec05aee155.jpg" alt="Solidarity and social justice: the left and assisted dying" width="600" /></figure><p><em>Ian Geary examines how the assisted dying bill does not entirely align with traditional Labour Party values. 28/11/2024</em></p><p>Tomorrow, the House of Commons has the Second Reading of the Terminally Ill Adults (End of Life) Bill. The bill has generated much comment, and readers will be well acquainted with the <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw61777834="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://catholicunion.org.uk/2024/11/countering-the-arguments-for-assisted-dying/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">general objections</a> from the bill&rsquo;s lack of <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw61777834="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://unherd.com/newsroom/do-not-trust-uk-assisted-dying-bills-safeguards/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">safeguards</a> to bleak evidence from the <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw61777834="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://care.org.uk/news/2024/10/poor-lonely-and-homeless-opting-for-assisted-death-in-canada?utm_source=CARE&amp;utm_campaign=aff6c3b233-" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">international context</a>.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw61777834="" bcx8"="" paraid="670733505" paraeid="{2f9a29ff-bef9-443d-bad2-87b7e3583b45}{11}">Some of that comment &ndash; especially last weekend &ndash; has been around the role of religious faith in objections to the bill. As a Christian, I entirely support the right of believers to comment on this topic, even with explicitly theological reasons should they so wish. However, as a lifelong Labour supporter, I want to reflect not on the religious arguments but on &ndash; so to speak &ndash; the other end of the spectrum. I want to argue that the bill does not align entirely comfortably with traditional &ldquo;secular&rdquo; or &ldquo;progressive&rdquo; Labour values, which some in my party profess to adhere to.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw61777834="" bcx8"="" paraid="1097965226" paraeid="{2f9a29ff-bef9-443d-bad2-87b7e3583b45}{67}">The Labour Party is (putatively) the party of solidarity with the working class, still institutionally true by virtue of its organic link with the trade union movement. It has long been perceived as the party of social justice, with a particular care for the poor and vulnerable. Imperfectly so, certainly, yes but the association exists and this matters.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw61777834="" bcx8"="" paraid="40338550" paraeid="{2f9a29ff-bef9-443d-bad2-87b7e3583b45}{141}">The potential consequences of this bill risk undermining this association, leading to an adverse impact on citizens from vulnerable backgrounds, in particular the <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw61777834="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://care.org.uk/news/2024/10/poor-lonely-and-homeless-opting-for-assisted-death-in-canada" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">poor</a>, the <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw61777834="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.disabilityrightsuk.org/news/disability-rights-uk%E2%80%99s-position-assisted-dying" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">disabled</a>, and the working&ndash;class. Recent evidence from Canada pointed to the impact of the Medical Assistance in Dying (MAiD) legislation in <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw61777834="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.bobilawalkerlaw.com/uncategorized/medical-assistance-in-dying-maid-in-ontario-the-poverty-connection/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Ontario</a> and the fact that 29% who were &lsquo;euthanized&rsquo; for conditions considered &lsquo;non&ndash;terminal&rsquo; came from poorer areas, and led some to conclude that &ndash; in non&ndash;terminal cases &ndash; poverty is a material factor leading to this outcome. This has nothing to do with compassionately ending someone&rsquo;s life to end unbearable suffering.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw61777834="" bcx8"="" paraid="1025113736" paraeid="{2f9a29ff-bef9-443d-bad2-87b7e3583b45}{226}">When &lsquo;end of life&rsquo; becomes an option, the grim reality is that the poor, disabled, mentally ill and<a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw61777834="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/sep/10/elders-assisted-dying-bill-euthansia" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"> elderly</a> risk being coerced into a decision to end their life &ndash; as again, Canada&rsquo;s <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw61777834="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/palliative-and-supportive-care/article/realities-of-medical-assistance-in-dying-in-canada/3105E6A45E04DFA8602D54DF91A2F568" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">MAiD</a> programme of euthanasia has shown. In other words, there is a class component at play.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw61777834="" bcx8"="" paraid="1047709192" paraeid="{dbd9bccd-7f5b-4227-ba87-b74c97f8ff16}{57}">This approach to the issue invariably draws in the wider discourse around choice. The last time this matter was debated by <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw61777834="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2015-09-11/debates/15091126000003/AssistedDying(No2)Bill" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">MPs</a>, &lsquo;choice&rsquo; was mentioned 47 times during the debate and Rob Marris MP, the Bill&rsquo;s sponsor stated that, &ldquo;there has been a trend in our society, which I support, that if the exercise of a choice does not harm others, in a free society we should allow that choice.&rdquo; As Nick Spencer observed in an <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw61777834="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/01/my-life-my-choice" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">earlier Theos blog</a>, this remains a key argument this time round. &ldquo;All I&rsquo;m asking for is that we be given the dignity of choice,&rdquo; Esther Rantzen has remarked.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw61777834="" bcx8"="" paraid="695351353" paraeid="{dbd9bccd-7f5b-4227-ba87-b74c97f8ff16}{113}">On the surface this sounds reasonable. However, the underlying assumptions behind the statements call for scrutiny. What constitutes harm to others? Does choice always drive the good? And who really has choice? The vulnerable and suffering, or the powerful and professional?&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw61777834="" bcx8"="" paraid="943970511" paraeid="{dbd9bccd-7f5b-4227-ba87-b74c97f8ff16}{145}">It is ironic, to put it mildly, for those on the left to draw heavily on the argument from choice given how &lsquo;choice&rsquo; is the register of the free market. (In the light of this, it is also ironic that the bill is being debated on &lsquo;Black Friday&rsquo;, a new festival of, and stimulus for, consumer choice). The market is encroaching everywhere. Choice &ndash; posited as an apparently unalloyed agent of consumerism &ndash; requires explanation in its given context.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw61777834="" bcx8"="" paraid="104745263" paraeid="{dbd9bccd-7f5b-4227-ba87-b74c97f8ff16}{233}">The choice for some to buy and sell might seem an unalienable right. But the logic of the market does not fit well with the values of the left: solidarity, fellowship, social justice and care irrespective of financial value. We need to consider the necessity of limits to the power of the market so the choices of others, i.e. the powerful, do not impinge on the weaker members of society. In fact, choice is normatively posited as an individual, rather than a collective act. As Bishop Graham Tomlin said is his opinion piece in <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw61777834="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.thetimes.com/comment/register/article/being-a-burden-on-others-is-not-undignified-fjtf5sw92" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">The Times</a> on 23 November, choice is not the final word on ethical matters, no matter how strong ones convictions might be.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw61777834="" bcx8"="" paraid="18588666" paraeid="{8cf35c8c-d979-49d7-b2fe-a1bcdef05153}{29}">However strong the popular association between legalising assisted dying and progressive politics may be, it is striking how many prominent Labour figures, such as Gordon Brown and Diane Abbott, have come out against the bill. The fact points to there being another way for the left here, a more authentically &lsquo;Labour&rsquo; approach to assisted dying, which is to fund high&ndash;quality palliative care and grant it the esteem it deserves. Earlier this year, the All&ndash;Party Parliamentary Group on Hospice and End of Life Care in their report, &lsquo;<a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw61777834="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://hukstage-new-bucket.s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/s3fs-public/2024-02/APPG%20Report%20-%20Government%20funding%20for%20Hospices%20HUK.pdf?VersionId=0l8T4jC5V2C0zRKQLFs9ClZ5QZ5xEiOs" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Government Funding for Hospices&rsquo; </a>called for strategic action stated that, &ldquo;the UK Government must produce a national plan to ensure the right funding flows to hospices.&rdquo; Gordon Brown has made a similar call this past weekend. This is surely the way forward at this juncture.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw61777834="" bcx8"="" paraid="1603916894" paraeid="{8cf35c8c-d979-49d7-b2fe-a1bcdef05153}{128}">As I noted earlier, many people oppose this bill on religious grounds. They have every right to do so. Christian beliefs underpin my approach also. However, the potential drawback with this approach is that it ends up subtly &lsquo;bifurcating&rsquo; views on the issue &ndash; anti = the religious, along with some fellow travellers; pro = the secular, the progressive, the Left. This is not the case. It needs to be stated that the case for assisted dying is no more intrinsically progressive than that against it is narrowly religious. As a Christian and a Labour party member, I believe the left should reject an approach based simply on &lsquo;choice&rsquo; and see its way to protecting the poor, honouring social justice and in ensuring that our fellow citizens, when faced with their life&rsquo;s final season, are supported towards a good and compassionate death.&nbsp;</p> <hr><p><strong>Interested in this? Share it on social media.&nbsp;</strong></p> <p><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/E9E17CAB71AC7464"><strong>Join our monthly e&ndash;newsletter</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/about/support-us"><strong>Supporter Programme</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to find out how you can help our work.</strong></p> ]]>
</description>
<author>hello@theosthinktank.co.uk (Ian Geary)</author>
<guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/28/solidarity-and-social-justice-the-left-and-assisted-dying</guid>
</item>
<item>
<title>Should Britain pay reparations for slavery? In conversation with Michael Banner</title>
<link>https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/26/should-britain-pay-reparations-for-slavery-in-conversation-with-michael-banner</link>
<pubDate>Tue, 26 Nov 2024 11:39:00 +0000</pubDate>
<description>
<![CDATA[ <figure><img src="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/assets/generated/articles/page/1d9f1d897c912923a94e011a4e4e7ec0.jpg" alt="Should Britain pay reparations for slavery? In conversation with Michael Banner" width="600" /></figure><p><em>Nick Spencer speaks with Dean and Fellow of Trinity College, Cambridge, Michael Banner. 26/11/2024</em></p><p><iframe src="https://readingourtimes.podigee.io/73-new-episode/embed?context=external&amp;theme=default" style="border: 0" frameborder="0" height="100" width="100%"></iframe></p> <p>The demand for post&ndash;colonial nations to pay reparations to, and for their treatment of, their former colonies has grown increasingly loud over recent years. And although many dismiss the idea as textbook liberal guilt and bandwagon wokery, there are some serious claims behind it.</p> <p>The topic kicks up some big moral issues. You can&rsquo;t talk about colonial reparations without working through what you think about moral responsibility, collective identity, and the effect of time on liability, all of which reflect on the underlying question of how we see ourselves.<br /><br />So, what is the nature of our relationship to other countries, to the past and to whatever moral norms we pride ourselves on?<br /><br />Purchase Michael&rsquo;s book <a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://chbookshop.hymnsam.co.uk/books/9780198889441/britains-slavery-debt" target="_blank">here</a>.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <hr><p><strong>Interested in this? Share it on social media.&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/E9E17CAB71AC7464"><strong>Join our monthly e&ndash;newsletter</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/about/support-us"><strong>Supporter Programme</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to find out how you can help our work.</strong></p> ]]>
</description>
<author>nick.spencer@theosthinktank.co.uk (Nick Spencer)</author>
<guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/26/should-britain-pay-reparations-for-slavery-in-conversation-with-michael-banner</guid>
</item>
<item>
<title>We need to talk about race and assisted dying </title>
<link>https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/26/we-need-to-talk-about-race-and-assisted-dying</link>
<pubDate>Tue, 26 Nov 2024 11:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
<description>
<![CDATA[ <figure><img src="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/assets/generated/articles/page/5db9e95cc41242e0cebf197bb5fd070e.jpg" alt="We need to talk about race and assisted dying " width="600" /></figure><p><em>Chine McDonald looks at assisted dying and the underrepresented (and different) perspective of black people. 26/11/2024</em></p><p>Over the past few weeks, I&rsquo;ve heard arguments from politicians and activists, campaigners, writers and celebrities arguing in favour of assisted dying. I can&rsquo;t recall many &ndash; or indeed any &ndash; of them being black. As we approach the vote on assisted dying this week, I&rsquo;ve been struck by how arguments in favour have held to very white, Western concepts of what it is to be human.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw79243880="" bcx8"="" paraid="188652729" paraeid="{ff949b22-3382-4615-afdb-a709f9768d45}{237}">The fact is, we are much less likely to find black people on the &lsquo;pro&rsquo; side. &nbsp;</p> <p scxw79243880="" bcx8"="" paraid="1837052609" paraeid="{ff949b22-3382-4615-afdb-a709f9768d45}{255}">Recent data from&nbsp;the Nuffield Council on Bioethics&nbsp;has borne this out. Their poll found that black respondents are much less likely to support assisted dying legislation: just 43 per cent of black people compared to&nbsp;75 per cent&nbsp;of white respondents were in favour.</p> <p scxw79243880="" bcx8"="" paraid="1729950577" paraeid="{1e55a827-a6f1-42ce-9369-93fd8430ec5d}{22}">Why might black communities be more hesitant about assisted dying legislation? I can hazard some guesses.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw79243880="" bcx8"="" paraid="695300229" paraeid="{1e55a827-a6f1-42ce-9369-93fd8430ec5d}{44}">The first is of course that religious views are likely to play a part.&nbsp; Ethnic minorities in the UK are more likely to belong to a religious tradition, where there are strong views about the sanctity of life. Research from the Nuffield Council found that support for assisted dying legislation was stronger among atheists (82%) compared to Christians (66%), Sikhs (52%) and Muslims (30%).&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw79243880="" bcx8"="" paraid="1648512751" paraeid="{1e55a827-a6f1-42ce-9369-93fd8430ec5d}{52}">Religious views aside, one thing is glaringly obvious to me: for many Black Britons, our sense of self straddles the divide between our cultures of origin and the Western frameworks in which we exist &ndash; the liberal versus the communitarian. Assisted dying is one of those topics in which there is a clash of cultures: a clash between the individualistic culture of 21st century Europe, and the interdependent communities from which we hail.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw79243880="" bcx8"="" paraid="1722492314" paraeid="{1e55a827-a6f1-42ce-9369-93fd8430ec5d}{80}">Many people will be familiar with the southern African term &lsquo;Ubuntu&rsquo;, which means &lsquo;I am because you are&rsquo;. In my own community &ndash; the Igbo ethnic group of south&ndash;eastern Nigeria &ndash; there is the concept of the Umunna: the fraternity, the clan or the community. In Igbo tradition, just as in many African communities, there is a strong sense of existing not as an individual , but knitted into a family. One body, with many parts, to allude to the passage in Corinthians. &nbsp;</p> <p scxw79243880="" bcx8"="" paraid="2083333544" paraeid="{1e55a827-a6f1-42ce-9369-93fd8430ec5d}{108}">The idea that someone who is facing death might not want to be a burden, whether due to illness or old age &ndash; as some arguments in favour of assisted dying might suggest &ndash; is anathema to West African tradition. You can&rsquo;t be a burden because you are not a separate entity. You&rsquo;re part of a whole. &nbsp;</p> <p scxw79243880="" bcx8"="" paraid="2114820101" paraeid="{1e55a827-a6f1-42ce-9369-93fd8430ec5d}{132}">We live and we breathe and we create families of our own within the context of the wider, interdependent community. We die within that community too.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw79243880="" bcx8"="" paraid="1367841084" paraeid="{1e55a827-a6f1-42ce-9369-93fd8430ec5d}{144}">Now there are, of course, challenges with this. My generation of British Nigerians will tell you of the frustrations of knowing that what might feel like our business (academic grades, who we marry, where we live, our birth stories) seems to be our whole family&rsquo;s business &ndash; whether that family is here in the UK, or back home.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw79243880="" bcx8"="" paraid="1601840797" paraeid="{1e55a827-a6f1-42ce-9369-93fd8430ec5d}{154}">Polling from <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw79243880="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://x.com/LukeTryl/status/1860637446410473880" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">More in Common</a> found that women are on average eight points more likely than men to say that, when it comes to assisted dying legislation,&nbsp;safeguards are essential. I would be fascinated to see how that data differed among black women like me, in particular.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw79243880="" bcx8"="" paraid="1616228511" paraeid="{1e55a827-a6f1-42ce-9369-93fd8430ec5d}{193}">Recent years have seen much discussion about health disparities for black women in maternity care, where they are <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw79243880="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/maternal-mortality-rates-in-the-black-community/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">four times more likely</a> to die in childbirth and in the year after giving birth than white women.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw79243880="" bcx8"="" paraid="1077645321" paraeid="{1e55a827-a6f1-42ce-9369-93fd8430ec5d}{208}">The medical profession has not done enough in recent years to allay black women&rsquo;s fears about giving birth. It would be unsurprising therefore that they might not trust the healthcare system when it comes to assisted dying, either. Can we really trust that &ndash; in a stretched NHS, where there are not enough beds, not enough resource to deal with demand &ndash; enough has been done to safeguard against racial bias? Can we really be sure that when it comes to someone making a &lsquo;choice&rsquo; about whether they live or die, assisted by medical practitioners, that these will be totally free of racial prejudice?&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw79243880="" bcx8"="" paraid="2087257891" paraeid="{1e55a827-a6f1-42ce-9369-93fd8430ec5d}{222}">There are those who would argue that such a view is pure hyperbole &ndash; that society has moved on from the days of racial discrimination. But <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw79243880="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.bmj.com/content/378/bmj.o2337" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">tell that to the 65%</a> of black people who have experienced discrimination by healthcare staff because of their ethnicity.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw79243880="" bcx8"="" paraid="231033454" paraeid="{1e55a827-a6f1-42ce-9369-93fd8430ec5d}{237}">And who can blame black communities for not trusting the system?&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw79243880="" bcx8"="" paraid="1611101327" paraeid="{1e55a827-a6f1-42ce-9369-93fd8430ec5d}{249}">We saw during the Covid&ndash;19 pandemic how the burden fell disproportionately on ethnic minority communities in the UK, and how some of this was down to lower vaccination uptake among them due to hesitancy about the healthcare system. <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw79243880="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.bma.org.uk/news-and-opinion/rebuilding-trust-in-medicine-among-ethnic-minority-communities" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">An article in the British Medical Journal</a> cited institutional racism, historical medical mistreatment of black people and cultural segregation as contributing factors.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw79243880="" bcx8"="" paraid="623524664" paraeid="{907395f9-3242-4aa2-8f81-a7461ed1a474}{5}">If assisted dying legislation passes, then one can only imagine what might happen among some of these communities. You can see how hesitation about seeking medical help might increase, for fear that one will be &lsquo;recommended&rsquo; by two medical professionals for euthanasia. Assisted dying proponents might argue that there will be enough safeguards in place to prevent this, but there has not been enough work to allay fears of black communities thus far. We need more time to discuss the wide&ndash;ranging implications and the ripple effects into communities like my own.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw79243880="" bcx8"="" paraid="1880975558" paraeid="{907395f9-3242-4aa2-8f81-a7461ed1a474}{17}">My colleagues have written on ideas around dignity, vulnerability and being a <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw79243880="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/14/beasts-of-burden" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">&lsquo;burden&rsquo;</a>when it comes to the assisted dying debate.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw79243880="" bcx8"="" paraid="377395966" paraeid="{907395f9-3242-4aa2-8f81-a7461ed1a474}{40}">As Marianne Rozario <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw79243880="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/22/the-gift-of-vulnerability" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">has written</a> it &lsquo;robs loved ones the time and space to care for relatives that once cared for them&hellip; We are denying the time others get to care for us, to love us.&rsquo;&nbsp; This is part of the beauty of being from a community whose roots lie in Africa or the Caribbean: the idea of oneness and interdependence is up front and centre in our common life.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw79243880="" bcx8"="" paraid="1009277955" paraeid="{907395f9-3242-4aa2-8f81-a7461ed1a474}{65}">I&rsquo;ve seen this as I&rsquo;ve witnessed my own family members rallying together, giving their time and money and prayers to relatives in need; how they have opened their homes and searched deep in their pockets for money to pay for relatives&rsquo; healthcare, even when things looked at their bleakest. This doesn&rsquo;t have to be a close relative, but anyone who might be considered part of the clan, part of the Umunna. I have watched and been amazed by how they have nursed each other through the most &lsquo;undignified&rsquo; moments.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw79243880="" bcx8"="" paraid="302368678" paraeid="{907395f9-3242-4aa2-8f81-a7461ed1a474}{85}">In my tradition, being burdened by others&rsquo; vulnerabilities is part and parcel of what it is to be human. Maybe this is exactly what it means to be family.</p> <p scxw79243880="" bcx8"="" paraid="302368678" paraeid="{907395f9-3242-4aa2-8f81-a7461ed1a474}{85}">&nbsp;</p> <hr><p><strong>Interested in this? Share it on social media.&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/E9E17CAB71AC7464"><strong>Join our monthly e&ndash;newsletter</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/about/support-us"><strong>Supporter Programme</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to find out how you can help our work.</strong></p> ]]>
</description>
<author>hello@theosthinktank.co.uk (Chine McDonald)</author>
<guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/26/we-need-to-talk-about-race-and-assisted-dying</guid>
</item>
<item>
<title>The Gift of Vulnerability</title>
<link>https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/22/the-gift-of-vulnerability</link>
<pubDate>Fri, 22 Nov 2024 09:44:00 +0000</pubDate>
<description>
<![CDATA[ <figure><img src="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/assets/generated/articles/page/b0bb88fbd3519c58e162ba2be3109332.jpg" alt="The Gift of Vulnerability" width="600" /></figure><p><em>As the Assisted Dying bill seeks to minimise vulnerability, Marianne Rozario explores the beauty in being cared for and caring for others. 22/11/2024</em></p><p>Being physically vulnerable is not a subject we often want to talk about. It is not comfortable because today&rsquo;s society teaches us to aim for physical independence, the ability to look after and care for oneself. You don&rsquo;t want to be, they say, a <a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/14/beasts-of-burden" target="_blank">&ldquo;burden&rdquo;</a> on others.</p> <p scxw248393389="" bcx8"="" paraid="593683882" paraeid="{99c7eeab-8147-4fad-a4f2-e672f8d92586}{226}">But what if vulnerability is not a flaw to be overcome, but a display of love?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw248393389="" bcx8"="" paraid="1286139729" paraeid="{99c7eeab-8147-4fad-a4f2-e672f8d92586}{238}">We enter the world vulnerable: a baby in need of support, cared primarily by our parents and those closest to us. And in most cases &ndash; as most people die a natural death &ndash; we leave this world vulnerable, cared for by those who love us, assisted by medical and social support.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw248393389="" bcx8"="" xml:="" paraid="1747675563" paraeid="{3ea84fe2-70d8-4f2d-b3f0-a70a6c1e6f38}{85}">Whilst we must acknowledge that sometimes the &ldquo;burden&rdquo; can feel&nbsp;too heavy and vulnerability inadvertently nearly crushes the other, what happens to a society when that vulnerability is denied? Assisted suicide denies our vulnerability, and denies us of a chance to receive and give love. &nbsp;</p> <p scxw248393389="" bcx8"="" xml:="" paraid="1686220964" paraeid="{27d9a454-c763-49eb-8c53-a1e1f217358c}{175}">The current assisted suicide bill being debated in the UK Parliament may appear to have tight regulations, but nonetheless the logic behind&nbsp;assisted suicide is that vulnerability should be avoided. For it proposes that before we are dependent on others for care, we should have the right to choose to end our life. The problem is that, in doing so, we are retreating from a key moment in which, naturally, we feel the practical loving care of others. Being in a state unable to care for oneself, reliant on others for the most basic actions like washing or feeding, should not be viewed as being a &ldquo;burden&rdquo; on society, but rather as allowing oneself to be cared for. It is in being vulnerable, we receive love.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw248393389="" bcx8"="" paraid="40474681" paraeid="{6d3415fc-5045-47ae-a5d4-22b5d6435226}{77}">At the same time, assisted suicide robs loved ones the time and space to care for relatives that once cared for them. We are denying the time others get to care for us; to love us. Anyone who has nursed a dying person knows that, whilst it may be extremely difficult, it is one of the most beautiful and profound moments of life. Like the prayer by Saint Francis of Assisi goes, &ldquo;for it is in giving that we receive&rdquo;; it is in caring for the vulnerable, that we receive.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw248393389="" bcx8"="" paraid="1528994462" paraeid="{6d3415fc-5045-47ae-a5d4-22b5d6435226}{101}">Those two touchpoints &ndash; being in a state of physical vulnerability allowing yourself to be cared for, and being a carer looking after someone who is at their most vulnerable &ndash; are when we are closest to knowing love; to touching the face of God, for God is love. This form of love, as agape, is characterised as self&ndash;giving, unconditional care for others, and willingness to sacrifice.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw248393389="" bcx8"="" paraid="180159813" paraeid="{6d3415fc-5045-47ae-a5d4-22b5d6435226}{137}">Christianity has something powerful to say about vulnerability. From His birth in a humble manger to His crucifixion on a cross, Jesus showed His willingness to be weak, dependent, and vulnerable in the face of human suffering and imperfection. In an ultimate act of vulnerability, Jesus surrendered himself completely, even to death, for the salvation of humanity. In this sense, Christians embrace vulnerability, especially in times of suffering or sacrifice,&nbsp;as imitating Christ&rsquo;s redemptive love.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw248393389="" bcx8"="" paraid="847863093" paraeid="{6d3415fc-5045-47ae-a5d4-22b5d6435226}{169}">Moreover, vulnerability is an essential part of Christian community and the call to love one another. Christian thought teaches that, as members of the Body of Christ, it is&nbsp;necessary to bear one another&rsquo;s burdens, following the commandment of Jesus to love one another. &nbsp;</p> <p scxw248393389="" bcx8"="" paraid="329003101" paraeid="{6d3415fc-5045-47ae-a5d4-22b5d6435226}{193}">Christian understandings of vulnerability challenge us to embrace our own weakness, trust in God&rsquo;s grace, and offer support to those in need. Vulnerability is, therefore, not a sign of defeat but an invitation to experience deeper intimacy with God and with others.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw248393389="" bcx8"="" paraid="1711606532" paraeid="{6d3415fc-5045-47ae-a5d4-22b5d6435226}{223}">A society that denies vulnerability &ndash; and actively directs us away from it &ndash; is a society that has forgotten what it means to be loved and to love.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <hr><p><strong><strong>Interested in this? Share it on social media.&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/E9E17CAB71AC7464" title="Get the latest news from Theos Think Tank" target="_blank"><strong>Join our monthly e&ndash;newsletter</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/about/support-us"><strong>Supporter Programme</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to find out how you can help our work.</strong></strong>&nbsp;</p> ]]>
</description>
<author>marianne.rozario@theosthinktank.co.uk (Marianne Rozario)</author>
<guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/22/the-gift-of-vulnerability</guid>
</item>
<item>
<title>What is "woke"? In conversation with Susan Neiman</title>
<link>https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/19/what-is-woke-in-conversation-with-susan-neiman</link>
<pubDate>Tue, 19 Nov 2024 10:28:00 +0000</pubDate>
<description>
<![CDATA[ <figure><img src="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/assets/generated/articles/page/1d9f1d897c912923a94e011a4e4e7ec0.jpg" alt="What is "woke"? In conversation with Susan Neiman" width="600" /></figure><p><em>Nick Spencer speaks with Einstein Forum in Germany Director, Susan Neiman. 19/11/2024</em></p><p><iframe src="https://readingourtimes.podigee.io/72-new-episode/embed?context=external&amp;theme=default&amp;token=joHV6kVRhqxJRwfVsV35jQ" style="border: 0" frameborder="0" height="100" width="100%"></iframe></p> <p>Depending on who you are, you might understand &ldquo;woke&rdquo; to mean &ldquo;concerned with fundamental human justice&rdquo;. Alternatively, you might think its means obsessed with identity politics, tribal, angry, and inclined to cancel and censor.</p> <p>Either way, you probably associate the term with the left. After all, &ldquo;lefty&rdquo; and &ldquo;liberal&rdquo; and the words most commonly paired with &ldquo;woke&rdquo;.<br /><br />But what if that isn&rsquo;t the case? What if it&rsquo;s an oversimplification? What if woke isn&rsquo;t left and left isn&rsquo;t woke? Where does that leave the left? And where does it leave wokery?</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <hr><p><strong>Interested in this? Share it on social media.&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/E9E17CAB71AC7464"><strong>Join our monthly e&ndash;newsletter</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/about/support-us"><strong>Supporter Programme</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to find out how you can help our work.</strong></p> ]]>
</description>
<author>nick.spencer@theosthinktank.co.uk (Nick Spencer)</author>
<guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/19/what-is-woke-in-conversation-with-susan-neiman</guid>
</item>
<item>
<title>Debating Assisted Dying: Lessons from Canada</title>
<link>https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/18/debating-assisted-dying-lessons-from-canada</link>
<pubDate>Mon, 18 Nov 2024 13:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
<description>
<![CDATA[ <figure><img src="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/assets/generated/articles/page/b54a9ec7bc3ddea04fae946a67326a36.jpg" alt="Debating Assisted Dying: Lessons from Canada" width="600" /></figure><p><em>John Milloy gives us an insight into the realities of legalising assisted dying from Canada. What lessons can the UK learn? 18/11/2024</em></p><p>How did assisted dying become so commonplace in Canada? Like the old quote about bankruptcy, it seemed to happen slowly and then all at once.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" paraid="912561059" paraeid="{de864770-bbf6-4121-8a13-246019daba92}{192}">In 2016, in response to a Supreme Court decision, the Canadian Parliament passed a law allowing those whose death was &ldquo;reasonably foreseeable&rdquo; to seek assisted dying. The law was later broadened in response to another court decision to include those whose death was not imminent but who had a <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.canada.ca%2Fen%2Fhealth-canada%2Fservices%2Fhealth-services-benefits%2Fmedical-assistance-dying.html&amp;data=05%7C02%7Cnick.spencer%40theosthinktank.co.uk%7Cacfff33344024e778d5508dd07a72837%7C707a8a9fd8614ff1937f94e1b73671b7%7C1%7C0%7C638675136750767498%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=7DuWShiJylBWTqURz%2Fm77K8we%2FMUpevvh8OrxWTIlVw%3D&amp;reserved=0" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">&ldquo;grievous and irremediable&rdquo; condition</a>.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" paraid="1266722928" paraeid="{de864770-bbf6-4121-8a13-246019daba92}{203}">That was not the end. The province of <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.quebec.ca%2Fen%2Fhealth%2Fhealth-system-and-services%2Fend-of-life-care%2Fmedical-aid-in-dying%2Fadvance-request-medical-aid-dying&amp;data=05%7C02%7Cnick.spencer%40theosthinktank.co.uk%7Cacfff33344024e778d5508dd07a72837%7C707a8a9fd8614ff1937f94e1b73671b7%7C1%7C0%7C638675136750811082%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=DcdsA9hL2JOdLu9%2FUjeV7gvLBDzXkwjaTTTek4mT9y0%3D&amp;reserved=0" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Quebec recently allowed advance requests</a> where someone diagnosed with an illness like dementia can agree to be euthanized in the future once they have declined and can no longer give consent. And although the government has promised to extend Medical Assistance in Dying (MAiD) as it is known in Canada, to those with mental illness, they have delayed its implementation until 2027.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" paraid="566927734" paraeid="{de864770-bbf6-4121-8a13-246019daba92}{218}">Despite being initially presented as a procedure of last resort, the rate of increase in Canadians accessing MAiD is the <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cardus.ca%2Fresearch%2Fhealth%2Freports%2Ffrom-exceptional-to-routine%2F&amp;data=05%7C02%7Cnick.spencer%40theosthinktank.co.uk%7Cacfff33344024e778d5508dd07a72837%7C707a8a9fd8614ff1937f94e1b73671b7%7C1%7C0%7C638675136750836707%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=Hd65E5FkQmAfX%2BrigqiTYbCqdOYrbyvmGviNcqXeSMw%3D&amp;reserved=0" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">fastest in the world</a>.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" paraid="1011552026" paraeid="{de864770-bbf6-4121-8a13-246019daba92}{233}">Does the Canadian experience hold any lessons for the UK? I am a retired Canadian politician teaching public ethics at an Ontario university and I would never be bold enough to advise UK citizens about how they should decide this issue. The Canadian experience might, however, help inform your debate.&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>This is about more than individual freedom&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" paraid="578784446" paraeid="{de864770-bbf6-4121-8a13-246019daba92}{245}">Unlike other emotional debates, such as the one over same&ndash;sex marriage, assisted dying never prompted the type of heated discussion in Canada that might have been expected. Many saw it as simply an issue of personal choice. Few seemed to question what type of society we were creating. Was it appropriate to create a system where doctors or nurse practitioners routinely help those desperate to die kill themselves? We also rarely discussed whether assisted dying was the right response to suffering, decline in quality of life, or a perceived loss of dignity.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" paraid="306649034" paraeid="{de864770-bbf6-4121-8a13-246019daba92}{255}">This was a significant oversight. <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.canada.ca%2Fcontent%2Fdam%2Fhc-sc%2Fdocuments%2Fservices%2Fmedical-assistance-dying%2Fannual-report-2022%2Fannual-report-2022.pdf&amp;data=05%7C02%7Cnick.spencer%40theosthinktank.co.uk%7Cacfff33344024e778d5508dd07a72837%7C707a8a9fd8614ff1937f94e1b73671b7%7C1%7C0%7C638675136750855256%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=TRtQvA8jEhhwiOpPTKY0%2FmLFRpJZkIQ%2FPKOfVMDiwiA%3D&amp;reserved=0" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Studies</a> show that Canadians accessing MAiD seek the procedure for reasons that often go beyond immediate pain, including: the inability to participate fully in daily living or pursue meaningful activity; loss of control of bodily functions; fear of being a burden; or even because of loneliness.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" paraid="1281904074" paraeid="{dff306c6-6e0b-42ca-82a3-cded14a88821}{15}">Instead of simply offering assisted dying, did we need to rethink concepts like &ldquo;meaning&rdquo; and &ldquo;dignity&rdquo;? One of the few groups to raise those questions in Canada were persons with disabilities who continue to challenge assisted dying as a response to physical limitations or fear of being a burden.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" paraid="954818169" paraeid="{dff306c6-6e0b-42ca-82a3-cded14a88821}{21}">Might assisted dying become a response to underfunding in our healthcare and social assistance systems? During the initial debate in Canada, such questions were dismissed as alarmist. But since then, we have seen <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftheconversation.com%2Fmaid-and-marginalized-people-coroners-reports-shed-light-on-assisted-death-in-ontario-241661&amp;data=05%7C02%7Cnick.spencer%40theosthinktank.co.uk%7Cacfff33344024e778d5508dd07a72837%7C707a8a9fd8614ff1937f94e1b73671b7%7C1%7C0%7C638675136750871994%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=M%2FWKT7cCUdtQWeOFMkiV8BUr7HIYRYozWC6O8wBxOys%3D&amp;reserved=0" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">studies</a> and <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbc.ca%2Fnews%2Fcanada%2Fmanitoba%2Fsathya-dharma-kovac-als-medical-assistance-in-death-1.6605754&amp;data=05%7C02%7Cnick.spencer%40theosthinktank.co.uk%7Cacfff33344024e778d5508dd07a72837%7C707a8a9fd8614ff1937f94e1b73671b7%7C1%7C0%7C638675136750887568%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=9vDX%2FlqyIRo0akS48Fnk0pdbErKQJmL6H%2B%2FYVC7FOa4%3D&amp;reserved=0" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">media</a> stories about individuals accessing the procedure because of poverty or the inability to find medical treatment. Perhaps most concerning, about one third of Canadians <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fnationalpost.com%2Fnews%2Fcanada%2Fcanada-maid-assisted-suicide-homeless&amp;data=05%7C02%7Cnick.spencer%40theosthinktank.co.uk%7Cacfff33344024e778d5508dd07a72837%7C707a8a9fd8614ff1937f94e1b73671b7%7C1%7C0%7C638675136750903376%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=UZkv8asGEdf2aNaXNMAlfolv1cAksmcvUNZcQu1OICw%3D&amp;reserved=0" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">surveyed</a> support poverty as a reason to seek assisted dying.&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>Once the procedure is in place, further discussion is difficult&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" paraid="1440820299" paraeid="{dff306c6-6e0b-42ca-82a3-cded14a88821}{56}">As someone working in the field of public ethics, I found the original debate over assisted dying different from discussing other controversial issues. While the procedure remained hypothetical, concerns could be freely raised without causing offense. Then the law was passed and the circle of those with a loved one who had accessed MAiD began to grow. An air of defensiveness began to take hold, and assisted dying joined the ranks of those issues that progressive people don&rsquo;t question.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" paraid="113694222" paraeid="{dff306c6-6e0b-42ca-82a3-cded14a88821}{66}">That point became apparent to me when I witnessed a Member of Parliament correct someone for using the term &ldquo;assisted suicide&rdquo;: &ldquo;We need to call it Medical Assistance in Dying&rdquo;, she said, &ldquo;so as not to stigmatize those who access it.&rdquo; Allowing a narrow law to be passed and taking a &ldquo;wait and see&rdquo; approach won&rsquo;t be doing yourself any favours.&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>Limiting it to only those who are dying will not end the debate&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" paraid="309481677" paraeid="{dff306c6-6e0b-42ca-82a3-cded14a88821}{86}">Canada&rsquo;s original decision to limit MAiD to those whose death was &ldquo;reasonably foreseeable&rdquo; didn&rsquo;t end the debate. Why only those at the end of their life? What about those who live daily with intolerable suffering with no relief in sight? What about individuals with severe mental health issues? Shouldn&rsquo;t those diagnosed with dementia be allowed advance consent to access the procedure in the future?&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" paraid="1184011993" paraeid="{dff306c6-6e0b-42ca-82a3-cded14a88821}{100}">It was difficult to respond as we hadn&rsquo;t worked through why MAiD was only limited to the dying. As Nick Spencer pointed out in a recent <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theosthinktank.co.uk%2Fcomment%2F2024%2F11%2F01%2Fmy-life-my-choice&amp;data=05%7C02%7Cnick.spencer%40theosthinktank.co.uk%7Cacfff33344024e778d5508dd07a72837%7C707a8a9fd8614ff1937f94e1b73671b7%7C1%7C0%7C638675136750919138%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=BhYxVXqGEEFJmxbuGut03ltQDAYNAVTS6dzgaIfwRBw%3D&amp;reserved=0" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Theos blog post</a>, &ldquo;unless there is an underpinning philosophical logic&rdquo; behind who can and can&rsquo;t access assisted dying, it is difficult to argue against its expansion.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" paraid="11656326" paraeid="{dff306c6-6e0b-42ca-82a3-cded14a88821}{115}">When a lower court ruled that the law must be broadened, the Canadian government didn&rsquo;t appeal the decision <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Ftheconversation.com%2Fthe-latest-medical-assistance-in-dying-decision-needs-to-be-appealed-heres-why-124955&amp;data=05%7C02%7Cnick.spencer%40theosthinktank.co.uk%7Cacfff33344024e778d5508dd07a72837%7C707a8a9fd8614ff1937f94e1b73671b7%7C1%7C0%7C638675136750936825%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=eIEa73typkfmTGkqi%2ByCsBpoT4OueIZFwTuWioZDZH0%3D&amp;reserved=0" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">even though many experts felt there were legal grounds</a>. Because we hadn&rsquo;t firmly established why only the dying were eligible, there was a sense that the law&rsquo;s expansion was inevitable.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" paraid="1113965674" paraeid="{dff306c6-6e0b-42ca-82a3-cded14a88821}{130}">Where will it end? The Canadian government is <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.canada.ca%2Fen%2Fhealth-canada%2Fnews%2F2024%2F10%2Fstatement-from-minister-of-health-and-the-minister-of-justice-and-the-attorney-general-of-canada-on-advance-requests-for-medical-assistance-in-dying.html&amp;data=05%7C02%7Cnick.spencer%40theosthinktank.co.uk%7Cacfff33344024e778d5508dd07a72837%7C707a8a9fd8614ff1937f94e1b73671b7%7C1%7C0%7C638675136750953578%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=HTnhpj2pYPljx1S0jDtl5ronX9lEo7dGt1av3Q167qY%3D&amp;reserved=0" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">considering offering advance requests nationwide.</a> Will the procedure be extended to those with mental illness in 2027? <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fangusreid.org%2Fmental-health-care-access-maid-mental-illness%2F&amp;data=05%7C02%7Cnick.spencer%40theosthinktank.co.uk%7Cacfff33344024e778d5508dd07a72837%7C707a8a9fd8614ff1937f94e1b73671b7%7C1%7C0%7C638675136750969147%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=vtaWabKlGUTx8Eme0ocwgepxfSUcWbSDghoFEhcJSMc%3D&amp;reserved=0" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Many Canadians oppose the idea</a> including the <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fglobalnews.ca%2Fnews%2F10282672%2Fassisted-dying-mental-illness-expansion-poilievre%2F&amp;data=05%7C02%7Cnick.spencer%40theosthinktank.co.uk%7Cacfff33344024e778d5508dd07a72837%7C707a8a9fd8614ff1937f94e1b73671b7%7C1%7C0%7C638675136750983731%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata=gg8EuDNJpmUbxJnkVmgBFH5f%2BzdYGAMRe06TqYKLbyU%3D&amp;reserved=0" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">opposition Conservatives who are ahead in the polls</a>, but the absence of clear reasoning as to why any category of suffering should be excluded has made debate difficult.&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>Conclusion&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" paraid="1359483802" paraeid="{dff306c6-6e0b-42ca-82a3-cded14a88821}{157}">There is considerable support for MAiD in Canada. It has, however, changed us as a nation and not necessarily for the better. I often ask myself whether it has weakened our collective sense of responsibility to support and encourage those who feel their lives have lost meaning. The speed with which we made assisted dying part of our culture has me feel more than a modicum of remorse. I hope that the people of the UK consider all the implications before moving forward.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <hr><p scxw114581565="" bcx8"="" paraid="1359483802" paraeid="{dff306c6-6e0b-42ca-82a3-cded14a88821}{157}"><strong><strong>Interested in this? Share it on social media.&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/E9E17CAB71AC7464" title="Get the latest news from Theos Think Tank" target="_blank"><strong>Join our monthly e&ndash;newsletter</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/about/support-us"><strong>Supporter Programme</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to find out how you can help our work.</strong></strong></p> ]]>
</description>
<author>hello@theosthinktank.co.uk (John Milloy)</author>
<guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/18/debating-assisted-dying-lessons-from-canada</guid>
</item>
<item>
<title>Beasts of Burden</title>
<link>https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/14/beasts-of-burden</link>
<pubDate>Thu, 14 Nov 2024 11:38:00 +0000</pubDate>
<description>
<![CDATA[ <figure><img src="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/assets/generated/articles/page/a21bb16c9d50ce46725549c8b7ff04ee.jpg" alt="Beasts of Burden" width="600" /></figure><p><em>The feeling of being a burden fuels the assisted dying debate. Nick Spencer reminds us that caring for each other is part of being human. 14/11/2024</em></p><p>Kim Leadbeater&rsquo;s long&ndash;awaited assisted dying bill has been published. The conversation can now start in earnest.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw216510315="" bcx8"="" paraid="1510461763" paraeid="{4bcdff62-af3b-4f5d-a146-42b25bb2a21d}{185}">That conversation will, quite rightly, encompass multiple details&hellip; the funding available for palliative care, the medical accuracy of relevant diagnoses, the legal and regulatory frameworks in Canada, Oregon, and elsewhere. Many of these are explored in a new book &ndash; talk about good timing! &ndash; published by Open University Press on <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw216510315="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.amazon.co.uk/Reality-Assisted-Dying-Julian-Hughes/dp/0335253172" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"><em>The Reality of Assisted Dying</em></a>, and edited by Ilora Finlay and Julian Hughes, to whom I spoke for this week&rsquo;s episode of <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw216510315="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/reading-our-times/id1530952185" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"><em>Reading Our Times</em></a>.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw216510315="" bcx8"="" paraid="466235152" paraeid="{4bcdff62-af3b-4f5d-a146-42b25bb2a21d}{233}">Underlying many of these details, however, is the question of how we understand ourselves. This question also has many different perspectives or dimensions to it. What is a human being <em>worth</em>? How far should our <em>autonomy</em> extend? What is the nature of our <em>responsibility</em> to one another? Wherein resides the <em>dignity</em> to which we are all committed? These are the anthropological foundations on which our ethical towers are constructed, upon which we hang our legislative programmes. What we say about ourselves ultimately informs where we go as a society.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw216510315="" bcx8"="" paraid="1785078705" paraeid="{605f4bea-eb5a-4e42-9230-dafc2faf77ee}{38}">One of the things we say about ourselves, and particularly in this debate, is that we don&rsquo;t want to be a burden on our loved ones. The line is repeated constantly and plays a role even in jurisdictions like Oregon, which have managed to avoid sliding down the slippery slope with the speed and eagerness of Canada. A 2016 report found that almost 50% of patients in Oregon whose lives were ended under the Oregon Death with Dignity Act cited &ldquo;being a burden&rdquo; as one of their concerns. (Finlay and Hughes: 17)&nbsp;</p> <p scxw216510315="" bcx8"="" paraid="2087840305" paraeid="{605f4bea-eb5a-4e42-9230-dafc2faf77ee}{62}">&ldquo;Burden&rdquo; is a dangerous word, one that morally colours just as much as it describes. The word literally means &ldquo;a heavy load&rdquo; but is only really used to describe the kind of load that is too heavy or, at least, the kind of load we would be better off without. No&ndash;one says, &ldquo;she&rsquo;s just such a burden to us&rdquo; and means something positive or enviable from it. In this way, introducing the word &ldquo;burden&rdquo; into our conversation about assisted dying does the thinking for us. If you accept that we shouldn&rsquo;t be a burden to our loved ones, job done.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw216510315="" bcx8"="" paraid="1590862093" paraeid="{605f4bea-eb5a-4e42-9230-dafc2faf77ee}{124}">But we shouldn&rsquo;t accept it, because we <em>are</em>&nbsp;a burden to those around us, and we should be. More precisely, the closer your ties to another human being, the greater the chance that that person will be a burden to you at some point in your relationship, just as you will to them. That&rsquo;s not wrong. It&rsquo;s part of being human.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw216510315="" bcx8"="" paraid="1010907498" paraeid="{605f4bea-eb5a-4e42-9230-dafc2faf77ee}{156}">Colleagues are on the periphery. If you do have a colleague who is consistently slope&ndash;shouldered, sooner or later they run out of road. But even in the working environment (or, at least, the happy, well&ndash;functioning working environment) there are times in which you will carry others&rsquo; loads, working late, say, to help them with a deadline or to cover for them as they deal with a personal problem. That burden&ndash;bearing is not a permanent feature of the workplace and is usually expected to be reciprocal rather than simply altruistic, but it is there, nonetheless.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw216510315="" bcx8"="" paraid="1121114142" paraeid="{605f4bea-eb5a-4e42-9230-dafc2faf77ee}{196}">Friends are closer. Superficially, they are the fun part of life. Holiday, pubs, parties, dinner tables: that&rsquo;s where friends belong. But close friends, as opposed to acquaintances, go beyond that, and there are times when you need them, and they need you. That need can be a burden, demanding time, energy, or money that you might otherwise not choose to offer. But offer it you do, for no more reason than they are your friend.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw216510315="" bcx8"="" paraid="1092733065" paraeid="{605f4bea-eb5a-4e42-9230-dafc2faf77ee}{246}">And then there is family&hellip; well, does it need to be said? The exhausted, bleary eyes of sleep&ndash;deprived new parents&hellip; the forced smile and raw&ndash;handed applause as mum and dad sit through the third nativity play in a week &hellip; the emotional bruising they endure during adolescence&hellip; the late&ndash;night counsel we offer to siblings&hellip; the visits to elderly or lonely relatives&hellip; it goes on. These are burdens, heavy loads. And we bear them. We bear them because that is how we would like to be treated. We bear them because we feel it is simply the right thing to do. We bear them because we sense this is what makes us more deeply human. We bear them because they are signs of love and without love we are nothing. &ldquo;Carry each other&rsquo;s burdens, and in this way you will fulfil the law of Christ.&rdquo;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw216510315="" bcx8"="" paraid="1085084908" paraeid="{1a99b031-64f0-4818-a5f0-c4fe5e263ccd}{89}">Let&rsquo;s not get too misty eyed here. Sometimes the burden becomes unbearable, so heavy that it will crush us. Martyrdom is no triumph here, if only because if we collapse under the weight of the burden, the person we are trying to help collapses with us. There are times in life when we cannot cope with what we are being called to carry, and we need others to carry with it us. First family, then friends, neighbours, associations, communities, and ultimately the state (though the modern world has not always preserved that order): we need these institutions to help us with those unbearable burdens.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw216510315="" bcx8"="" paraid="2128850668" paraeid="{1a99b031-64f0-4818-a5f0-c4fe5e263ccd}{147}">But that does not change the fundamental picture that humans are here to &ldquo;bear one another&rsquo;s burdens&rdquo;. We are born to carry one another. &ldquo;If anyone forces you to go one mile, go with them two miles.&rdquo; We are natural beasts of burden. If we pretend otherwise, if we think the burden is a distraction from who we are &ndash; rather than an example of who we are &ndash; we will become less than who we are.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw216510315="" bcx8"="" paraid="2128850668" paraeid="{1a99b031-64f0-4818-a5f0-c4fe5e263ccd}{147}">&nbsp;</p> <hr> <p scxw216510315="" bcx8"="" paraid="2128850668" paraeid="{1a99b031-64f0-4818-a5f0-c4fe5e263ccd}{147}"><strong>Interested in this? Share it on social media.&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/E9E17CAB71AC7464"><strong>Join our monthly e&ndash;newsletter</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/about/support-us"><strong>Supporter Programme</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to find out how you can help our work.</strong></p> ]]>
</description>
<author>nick.spencer@theosthinktank.co.uk (Nick Spencer)</author>
<guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/14/beasts-of-burden</guid>
</item>
<item>
<title>Befriending the KKK and Dismantling Racism with Daryl Davis</title>
<link>https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/13/befriending-the-kkk-and-dismantling-racism-with-daryl-davis</link>
<pubDate>Wed, 13 Nov 2024 11:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
<description>
<![CDATA[ <figure><img src="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/assets/generated/articles/page/24aebf5295a5286b97a670b7f0f9116e.jpg" alt="Befriending the KKK and Dismantling Racism with Daryl Davis" width="600" /></figure><p><em>In collaboration with the Larger Us podcast, Elizabeth Oldfield speaks with musician and activist Daryl Davis. 13/11/2024</em></p><p><iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dv5RGa3riyI?si=1poJdvXkSI85W9hV" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen=""></iframe></p> <p>Daryl Davis shares a unique perspective on the motivations behind white supremacy and what it takes to see the gradual transformation of KKK members.</p> <p>Hosts Elizabeth Oldfield and Alex Evans, delve into the extraordinary story of Daryl Davis, a Blues musician who has spent decades befriending and dialoguing with members of the Ku Klux Klan. Driven by a deep curiosity to understand the roots of racism, Daryl has taken an unconventional approach, choosing empathy and open communication over confrontation.<br /><br />Discover the profound impact one person can have in bridging the divide and fostering greater understanding between communities.<br /><br />If you enjoy episodes of The Sacred don&rsquo;t forget to hit subscribe to be notified whenever we release an episode!</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <hr><p><strong>Interested in this? Share it on social media.&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/E9E17CAB71AC7464"><strong>Join our monthly e&ndash;newsletter</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/about/support-us"><strong>Supporter Programme</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to find out how you can help our work.</strong></p> ]]>
</description>
<author>hello@theosthinktank.co.uk (Elizabeth Oldfield)</author>
<guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/13/befriending-the-kkk-and-dismantling-racism-with-daryl-davis</guid>
</item>
<item>
<title>Assisted Dying: What's really at stake? In conversation with Ilora Finlay and Julian Hughes</title>
<link>https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/12/assisted-dying-whats-really-at-stake-in-conversation-with-ilora-finlay-and-julian-hughes</link>
<pubDate>Tue, 12 Nov 2024 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
<description>
<![CDATA[ <figure><img src="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/assets/generated/articles/page/1d9f1d897c912923a94e011a4e4e7ec0.jpg" alt="Assisted Dying: What's really at stake? In conversation with Ilora Finlay and Julian Hughes" width="600" /></figure><p><em>Nick Spencer speaks with Crossbench Peer and honorary professor of palliative medicine at Cardiff University, Ilora Finlay, and former professor of philosophy and old age psychiatry, Julian Hughes. 12/11/2024</em></p><p><iframe src="https://readingourtimes.podigee.io/71-new-episode/embed?context=external&amp;theme=default" style="border: 0" frameborder="0" height="100" width="100%"></iframe></p> <p>Assisted Dying is back on the legislative agenda, with parliament voting on it this autumn. It is a profound and contentious debate about which good and well&ndash;meaning people can and do disagree deeply.<br /><br />What is really at stake here? Apart from the obvious, the debate kicks up some profound and difficult questions about most important ideas concerning human life.<br /><br />For example, how far should we respect people&rsquo;s autonomy and choice? What constitutes a meaningful life? And what is the meaning of human dignity?<br /><br />Buy a copy of Ilora and Julian&rsquo;s book &lsquo;The Reality of Assisted Dying&rsquo; <a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.amazon.co.uk/Reality-Assisted-Dying-Julian-Hughes/dp/0335253172" target="_blank">here</a>.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <hr><p><strong>Interested in this? Share it on social media.&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/E9E17CAB71AC7464"><strong>Join our monthly e&ndash;newsletter</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/about/support-us"><strong>Supporter Programme</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to find out how you can help our work.</strong></p> ]]>
</description>
<author>nick.spencer@theosthinktank.co.uk (Nick Spencer)</author>
<guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/12/assisted-dying-whats-really-at-stake-in-conversation-with-ilora-finlay-and-julian-hughes</guid>
</item>
<item>
<title>Super Bowl Election</title>
<link>https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/07/super-bowl-election</link>
<pubDate>Thu, 07 Nov 2024 09:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
<description>
<![CDATA[ <figure><img src="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/assets/generated/articles/page/1cb13919ba7e11f6a1e75a0a78d8adef.jpg" alt="Super Bowl Election" width="600" /></figure><p><em>Following the 2024 US Election, Paul Bickley examines how American politics is turning into an existential battle between good and evil. 07/11/2024</em></p><p>Way back on 11 February the Kansas City Chiefs and San Francisco 49ers met at Allegiant Stadium in Las Vegas for the 2024 Super Bowl. For those not in the know, the Kansas City Chiefs claimed victory in a dramatic overtime finish when Patrick Mahomes connected with wide receiver Mecole Hardman for the decisive touchdown. They won 25&ndash;22, and so secured their second consecutive Super Bowl win. The halftime show contained all the usual glitz, showbiz and commercialism. TV coverage ran an allegedly funny Dunkin&rsquo; Donuts advert starring Jennifer Lopez and Ben Affleck. (Sadly, the joke didn&rsquo;t last &ndash; the couple separated and filed for divorce in April.)&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw26885905="" bcx8"="" paraid="144997472" paraeid="{281dce60-cfea-4af3-822c-ea86d69a95d8}{212}">Nine months later and the world is digesting the results of the US presidential (and other!) elections. This every&ndash;four&ndash;year event is like a political version of the Super Bowl. Large crowds, lots of money, and celebrities &ndash; often the same celebrities &ndash; endorsing the &lsquo;product&rsquo; of this or that campaign. Two teams facing off on the biggest stage imaginable. No prizes for second place.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw26885905="" bcx8"="" paraid="692329487" paraeid="{281dce60-cfea-4af3-822c-ea86d69a95d8}{232}">American politics increasingly looks like a piling up on a series of binaries. It&rsquo;s not just Republican vs Democrat, left vs Right. It&rsquo;s urban vs rural; coasts versus flyover; pro&ndash;life vs pro&ndash;choice; and, in this election, men vs women. For the winning team &ndash; elation, power, and the opportunity to shape America and the world. For the other, a billion&ndash;dollar failure. Losers.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw26885905="" bcx8"="" paraid="888484667" paraeid="{b394753e-8b1b-4cb8-a300-db0a3ccb09e7}{9}">Of course, religion plays a part in American democracy. By now we are familiar with the ways groups tend to break: white evangelicals for the Republicans (according to the exit polls of the <a hyperlinkgateoff="" scxw26885905="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/interactive/2024/exit-polls-2024-election/" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener"><em>Washington Post</em></a>, making up around 1 in 5 votes and breaking 81% for Trump).&nbsp; All other religious groups, taken together, lean Democrat, with Harris securing 58% of their votes. In this constitutionally secular democracy, both sides are still &lsquo;going to church&rsquo;.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw26885905="" bcx8"="" paraid="1453690010" paraeid="{b394753e-8b1b-4cb8-a300-db0a3ccb09e7}{20}">But there is something deeper at work, which should also be called religious. A Manichaean spirit has taken hold of American politics, perhaps also American society at large. This is not any anachronistic claim of the revival of the long dead religion of the prophet Mani, but it is something the resembles it. Manichaeism, a kind of mashup of Christianity, Zoroastrianism, and Buddhism that emerged in 3rd century Persia, taught that existence was a struggle between two equal and opposite forces of good and evil, light and darkness. Through ascetic practices of prayer, fasting, and confession the &lsquo;elect&rsquo; could help release the light from its imprisonment in matter, which Manichaeans considered inherently evil.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw26885905="" bcx8"="" paraid="973210791" paraeid="{b394753e-8b1b-4cb8-a300-db0a3ccb09e7}{82}">Not that different from Christianity, you might think. Indeed, Manichaeism was, for a time, an influential Christian&ndash;adjacent sect in the Roman Empire. But the church and its theologians more and more critiqued and distanced themselves from it. Finally, the Roman Empire suppressed it (as did the Sassanian Empire, where Mani is thought to have died in prison). Famously, Augustine of Hippo was a Manichaean until his conversion at the age of 31. He too became an ardent critic of his former religion.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw26885905="" bcx8"="" paraid="1035679929" paraeid="{b394753e-8b1b-4cb8-a300-db0a3ccb09e7}{156}">All this seems like a very long way from Washington DC, but I&rsquo;ve been reminded of the Manichaeans as political discourse has begun to co&ndash;mingle with contemporary &lsquo;conspirituality&rsquo;, and as many of us have felt the temptation to cast politics as an existential battle between good and evil. We are too apt to see campaigns and elections as the purgative process whereby light will be released from the enmeshing darkness. As anyone watching will have realized, both camps in this election have indulged in this. If you were to believe the utterances of the opposing campaigns , this was a Super Bowl runoff between the Communists and the Nazis &ndash; two words which in America are equal and opposite evils, depending who you&rsquo;re talking to.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw26885905="" bcx8"="" paraid="1383851603" paraeid="{b394753e-8b1b-4cb8-a300-db0a3ccb09e7}{252}">Why? Partly because with less social mixing, and more social media echo chambers, it is easier to believe that your political opponents are not only wrong but stupid, and not only stupid but evil. Partly its tactical, yet another way to whip up the base or get the vote out. Ultimately, however, it is partly because both sides believe it. Last Sunday, Kamala Harris spoke at a church in Detroit, Michigan:&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw26885905="" bcx8"="" paraid="1983898925" paraeid="{bd5119e0-46ff-4e61-8e4f-96b5568ce333}{17}"><em>We face a real question: what kind of country do we want to live in? What kind of country do we want for our children and our grandchildren? A country of chaos fear and hate or a country of freedom justice and compassion?&hellip; Let us turn the page and write the next chapter of our history. A chapter grounded in a divine plan big enough to encompass all of our dreams. A divine plan strong enough to heal division. A divine plan bold enough to embrace possibility: God&rsquo;s plan.&nbsp;</em></p> <p scxw26885905="" bcx8"="" paraid="661016528" paraeid="{bd5119e0-46ff-4e61-8e4f-96b5568ce333}{91}">I admire Harris&rsquo; effort to appeal to religious voters in a language that would make sense to them. Churlish though it may be, I can&rsquo;t help but notice the weaknesses of the implicit theology of statements like this. I would be surprised if God&rsquo;s plan did = Democratic Party platform, just as I would if it was the Republican Party platform. If it did, then God&rsquo;s plan is now in tatters, and his purposes junked by swing voters in Pennsylvania and Michigan.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw26885905="" bcx8"="" paraid="206038576" paraeid="{bd5119e0-46ff-4e61-8e4f-96b5568ce333}{141}">One of Augustine&rsquo;s complaints about this belief system was that God for the Manichaeans was not God at all. He was limited by matter and darkness. Somehow, it is God and goodness and light that needed to be saved. He also disliked the way Manicheans gave equal ontological weight to evil. For Christians, even those that do find themselves at a bleak moment in history, we are not in an existential Super Bowl contest between good and evil. The powers, said St Paul, have been disarmed and defeated. Christians cannot be Manichaeans.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw26885905="" bcx8"="" paraid="1186002709" paraeid="{bd5119e0-46ff-4e61-8e4f-96b5568ce333}{223}">The pathology in American politics is not the evil of either side, but the tendency of both sides to elevate their politics to the level of cosmic struggle. They overestimate the transformative potential, or wisdom, of their own victories. They will see their defeats as moral failures. The worst are full of passionate intensity, as Yeats wrote. But the best must avoid this Manichaean heresy and hold out for the complicated middle ground of democracy as a means to work slowly, often indirectly, towards the common good.&nbsp; &nbsp;</p> <hr><p scxw26885905="" bcx8"="" paraid="1186002709" paraeid="{bd5119e0-46ff-4e61-8e4f-96b5568ce333}{223}"><strong>Interested in this? Share it on social media.&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/E9E17CAB71AC7464"><strong>Join our monthly e&ndash;newsletter</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/about/support-us"><strong>Supporter Programme</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to find out how you can help our work.</strong></p> ]]>
</description>
<author>paul.bickley@theosthinktank.co.uk (Paul Bickley)</author>
<guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/07/super-bowl-election</guid>
</item>
<item>
<title>Porn, Feminism and Misogyny in the Media with Sarah Ditum</title>
<link>https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/06/porn-feminism-and-misogyny-in-the-media-with-sarah-ditum</link>
<pubDate>Wed, 06 Nov 2024 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
<description>
<![CDATA[ <figure><img src="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/assets/generated/articles/page/24aebf5295a5286b97a670b7f0f9116e.jpg" alt="Porn, Feminism and Misogyny in the Media with Sarah Ditum" width="600" /></figure><p><em>Elizabeth Oldfield speaks with writer and columnist Sarah Ditum. 06/11/2024</em></p><p><iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/57qFm64aA9E?si=R0LEsN3_GkQtJC4z" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen=""></iframe></p> <p>Sarah Ditum delves into her journey through the strands of feminism, the misogynistic &ldquo;upskirt decade&rdquo;, the invasive celebrity culture of the late 90s and 2000s that often exploited and shamed young women, and her views on the role of pornography and its impact on mainstream culture. <br /><br />Sarah is a critic and columnist for The Times and The Sunday Times, and author of the book &ldquo;Toxic: Women and the Noughties.&rdquo; <br /><br />This wide&ndash;ranging conversation provides a nuanced look at the evolution of feminist thought, the power of media narratives, and the personal experiences that have informed Sarah Ditum&rsquo;s worldview. <br /><br />If you enjoy episodes of The Sacred don&rsquo;t forget to hit subscribe to be notified whenever we release an episode.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <hr><p><strong>Interested in this? Share it on social media.&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/E9E17CAB71AC7464"><strong>Join our monthly e&ndash;newsletter</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/about/support-us"><strong>Supporter Programme</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to find out how you can help our work.</strong></p> ]]>
</description>
<author>hello@theosthinktank.co.uk (Elizabeth Oldfield)</author>
<guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/06/porn-feminism-and-misogyny-in-the-media-with-sarah-ditum</guid>
</item>
<item>
<title>Can poetry save us? In conversation with Charles Taylor</title>
<link>https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/05/can-poetry-save-us-in-conversation-with-charles-taylor</link>
<pubDate>Tue, 05 Nov 2024 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
<description>
<![CDATA[ <figure><img src="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/assets/generated/articles/page/1d9f1d897c912923a94e011a4e4e7ec0.jpg" alt="Can poetry save us? In conversation with Charles Taylor" width="600" /></figure><p><em>Nick Spencer speaks with Professor emeritus at McGill University, Charles Taylor. 05/11/2024</em></p><p><iframe src="https://readingourtimes.podigee.io/70-new-episode/embed?context=external&amp;theme=default" style="border: 0" frameborder="0" height="100" width="100%"></iframe></p> <p>For many people, many of whom would not call themselves religious or even spiritual, poetry is somehow able to enchant, to inspire, to heal&ndash; to give them a glimpse of connection, of transcendence that transforms their life.<br /><br />Particularly today, in &ldquo;A secular age&rdquo; in the West, it is poetry and indeed the arts more widely that often boast the greatest ability convey that sense of connection and transcendence that seems so important and hard&ndash;wired in humans.<br /><br />What is going on here? How does it work? And what does it say about us as human beings?<br /><br />Buy a copy of Charles Taylor&rsquo;s book &lsquo;How the World Made the West&rsquo; <a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.hup.harvard.edu/books/9780674296084" target="_blank">here</a>.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <hr><p><strong>Interested in this? Share it on social media.&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/E9E17CAB71AC7464"><strong>Join our monthly e&ndash;newsletter</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/about/support-us"><strong>Supporter Programme</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to find out how you can help our work.</strong>&nbsp;</p> ]]>
</description>
<author>nick.spencer@theosthinktank.co.uk (Nick Spencer)</author>
<guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/05/can-poetry-save-us-in-conversation-with-charles-taylor</guid>
</item>
<item>
<title>"My life, my choice"</title>
<link>https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/01/my-life-my-choice</link>
<pubDate>Fri, 01 Nov 2024 11:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
<description>
<![CDATA[ <figure><img src="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/assets/generated/articles/page/567065e7b26de5937c6c6cc1aeb584ae.jpg" alt=""My life, my choice"" width="600" /></figure><p><em>Nick Spencer critiques the idea that &lsquo;dignity of choice&rsquo; is the most compelling moral argument in the assisted dying debate. 01/11/2024 </em></p><p>Esther Rantzen put it best. Not long after Kim Leadbeater announced her private members&rsquo; bill, the former TV star was interviewed by Amol Rajan on BBC Radio 4&rsquo;s <a scxw229213307="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0023gjg" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Today programme</a>.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw229213307="" bcx8"="" paraid="915846067" paraeid="{4c713b87-9880-420a-971b-664038e9b01b}{203}">&ldquo;All I&rsquo;m asking for is that we be given the <em>dignity of choice</em>,&rdquo; she said, using a telling phrase that I have italicised here. &ldquo;If I decide my own life is not worth living, please may I ask for help to die. It&rsquo;s a choice.&rdquo; She continued, &ldquo;I don&rsquo;t want to pressure anyone either way&hellip;it&rsquo;s the most personal choice&hellip;like whether or not to have a baby&hellip; I&rsquo;m asking for choice.&rdquo;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw229213307="" bcx8"="" paraid="1463450055" paraeid="{4c713b87-9880-420a-971b-664038e9b01b}{253}">This is a very widespread sentiment. I have had two conversations in the last week alone with people who were indignant, bordering on furious, that I was prepared to argue against the right to choose the manner of death, especially when it came to someone suffering from a painful and incurable illness.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw229213307="" bcx8"="" paraid="1268718990" paraeid="{78c227dd-4c5a-4716-bd2a-7fe809d09951}{16}">As noted in a <a scxw229213307="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/24/decision-by-heart-string-a-reflection-on-the-assisted-dying-debate" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">previous blog</a>, I do waver a bit on this issue but, ironically, it is when I hear Esther Rantzen&rsquo;s words, or words like them, that I am nudged most decisively away from supporting any change in the law.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw229213307="" bcx8"="" paraid="117677538" paraeid="{78c227dd-4c5a-4716-bd2a-7fe809d09951}{43}">On the surface, the argument sounds reasonable, indeed obvious. We have been well trained by decades of consumerism to hear &lsquo;choice&rsquo; as not only as axiomatic but as morally momentous. If my sentence begins &lsquo;I choose&rsquo;, you are going to need a damn good reason to deny me. Moreover, the phrase familiar from the abortion debate &ndash; &ldquo;my body, my choice&rdquo; &ndash; so often repeated, so rarely interrogated, so automatically assumed unanswerable, has softened us up for the assisted dying one. &ldquo;My life, my choice.&rdquo;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw229213307="" bcx8"="" paraid="152636203" paraeid="{78c227dd-4c5a-4716-bd2a-7fe809d09951}{127}">A little reflection shows that &ldquo;my body my choice&rdquo; is not really a moral argument at all, let alone an inherently persuasive one. &ldquo;My body my choice&rdquo; &ndash; really? Does that apply to sex selective abortion? To self&ndash;harm? To suicide? So it is with the argument from choice in this debate concerning the other end of life.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw229213307="" bcx8"="" paraid="1973579270" paraeid="{78c227dd-4c5a-4716-bd2a-7fe809d09951}{165}">Look at Esther Rantzen&rsquo;s words again. &ldquo;If I decide my own life is not worth living, please may I ask for help to die. It&rsquo;s a choice.&rdquo; Seriously? If you are like me, there will have been a few times in your life that you have felt &ndash; deeply felt &ndash; that your life is not worth living. I know I am, by nature, a melancholic soul but I doubt whether I am that exceptional in this. I can only thank God that I wasn&rsquo;t living in Canada at the time where MAiD (Medical Assistance in Dying) is now the fifth commonest cause of death.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw229213307="" bcx8"="" paraid="526727682" paraeid="{78c227dd-4c5a-4716-bd2a-7fe809d09951}{207}">Ah! respond those in favour of the Leadbeater bill. That may be so. But that is <em>not</em> what is on offer in this bill. On the contrary, the Leadbeater regulations are highly restrictive, and will remain so.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw229213307="" bcx8"="" paraid="1928352279" paraeid="{78c227dd-4c5a-4716-bd2a-7fe809d09951}{235}">But they will not remain so, because they cannot remain so. If we really do intend to prioritize &lsquo;autonomy&rsquo; in the way that advocates of assisted dying do &ndash; if we do want to give people like Esther Rantzen the &ldquo;dignity of choice&rdquo; &ndash; we no longer have any grounds to deny it to people who argue &ndash; with great reason, cogency and unassailable self&ndash;knowledge &ndash; that they have come to the conclusion that their life is not worth living, and do not want to go on living, and that <em>they</em> want the dignity of choice too. If you put all your eggs in that philosophical basket, you have no tools left to argue against that view (and if you come across a more mixed metaphor today, you should treasure it).&nbsp;</p> <p scxw229213307="" bcx8"="" paraid="975867459" paraeid="{2604e0ff-3aaf-4946-946d-50bb0911cc94}{30}">Or, put another way, law is not positivist. It cannot exist solely on the basis of judicial decisions. It needs moral and philosophical ground beneath it. It is all well and good to propose tight restrictions for any incoming legislation, but unless there is an underpinning philosophical logic to them, they will not hold. You will find yourself on a tilting slope &ndash; with only the slightest of gradients, perhaps, but tilting nonetheless &ndash; without a brake to reach for.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw229213307="" bcx8"="" paraid="1375323629" paraeid="{2604e0ff-3aaf-4946-946d-50bb0911cc94}{82}">It is no accident that Leadbeater&rsquo;s bill has already been criticised by some for being too tight. It is no accident that restrictions have been gradually loosened in Belgium and the Netherlands. It is no accident that <a scxw229213307="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://montrealgazette.com/news/quebec/explainer-a-look-at-advance-requests-for-maid-in-quebec" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Quebec has just this week</a> become the first province in Canada to allow people to make <em>advance</em> requests for medical assistance in dying (MAiD), meaning that &ldquo;a person with an illness that will eventually leave them unable to grant consent can arrange to receive a medically assisted death when their condition worsens, be it months or years in the future.&rdquo;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw229213307="" bcx8"="" paraid="1842553216" paraeid="{2604e0ff-3aaf-4946-946d-50bb0911cc94}{113}">It is no accident because there is a perfectly consistent, cogent and coherent logic here. If we think dignity means choice, this is where we must end up. However alluring it may sound, however it is dressed up as compassion, and however much it is the <em>de facto</em> basis of a consumerist society like our own, the fact is that choice is not enough.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw229213307="" bcx8"="" paraid="256391416" paraeid="{2604e0ff-3aaf-4946-946d-50bb0911cc94}{153}"><strong>Theos&rsquo; new report,</strong>&nbsp;&rsquo;<strong style="">The Meaning of Dignity: what&rsquo;s beneath the assisted dying debate&rsquo;</strong> <strong>can be read </strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/cmsfiles/Meaning-of-Dignity-report-FINAL.pdf" target="_blank" style="font-weight: bold;">here.</a></p> <p scxw229213307="" bcx8"="" paraid="256391416" paraeid="{2604e0ff-3aaf-4946-946d-50bb0911cc94}{153}">&nbsp;</p> <hr><p scxw229213307="" bcx8"="" paraid="256391416" paraeid="{2604e0ff-3aaf-4946-946d-50bb0911cc94}{153}"><strong>Interested in this? Share it on social media.&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/E9E17CAB71AC7464"><strong>Join our monthly e&ndash;newsletter</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/about/support-us"><strong>Supporter Programme</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to find out how you can help our work.</strong></p> ]]>
</description>
<author>nick.spencer@theosthinktank.co.uk (Nick Spencer)</author>
<guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/11/01/my-life-my-choice</guid>
</item>
<item>
<title>In Sync With The Sun</title>
<link>https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/30/in-sync-with-the-sun</link>
<pubDate>Wed, 30 Oct 2024 11:42:00 +0000</pubDate>
<description>
<![CDATA[ <figure><img src="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/assets/generated/articles/page/e552679af978f9851c1648424e512f63.jpg" alt="In Sync With The Sun" width="600" /></figure><p><em>A new animation by Emily Downe exploring what happens when we disturb life&rsquo;s natural rhythms. How do we understand our worth in a culture that idolises productivity. 30/10/2024</em></p><p><strong><iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/LQQBArk_3EE?si=yU6P92QRNw_E0lnY" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen=""></iframe></strong></p><p>This short film explores the rhythms of waking and resting embedded in the natural world. The film explores the impact of productivity boosting artificial technologies on our world. We can do more, make more, profit more, but without boundaries. But what do we lose when we pursue limitless productivity?&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw90319390="" bcx8"="" paraid="852217321" paraeid="{46fb3883-4276-4c05-bf29-6c7d625a4ce0}{50}">Interested? This animation is part of wider research by Theos on productivity. For more, click <a scxw90319390="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/research/2024/09/11/more-the-problem-with-productivity" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">here</a>&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>Script for In Sync with the Sun&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></p> <p trackedchange="" scxw90319390="" bcx8"="" paraid="1785051167" paraeid="{46fb3883-4276-4c05-bf29-6c7d625a4ce0}{67}">The war against sleep began when artificial light broke into the night.&nbsp;It&rsquo;s an absurdity, a bad habit.&nbsp;&lsquo;There is really no reason why men should go to bed at all&rsquo;, Thomas Edison said.&nbsp;Be productive.&nbsp;Rest is for the dead.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw90319390="" bcx8"="" paraid="205904043" paraeid="{46fb3883-4276-4c05-bf29-6c7d625a4ce0}{90}">Slack jawed, drifting into enchantment and mystery,&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw90319390="" bcx8"="" paraid="1461009030" paraeid="{46fb3883-4276-4c05-bf29-6c7d625a4ce0}{102}">The unlimited mind&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw90319390="" bcx8"="" paraid="895920775" paraeid="{46fb3883-4276-4c05-bf29-6c7d625a4ce0}{108}">Playtime&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw90319390="" bcx8"="" paraid="1872022753" paraeid="{46fb3883-4276-4c05-bf29-6c7d625a4ce0}{116}">A waste of time.&nbsp;Every living thing thrives in cycles of activity and rest,&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw90319390="" bcx8"="" paraid="117280578" paraeid="{46fb3883-4276-4c05-bf29-6c7d625a4ce0}{126}">In Sync with the sun.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw90319390="" bcx8"="" paraid="2117808033" paraeid="{46fb3883-4276-4c05-bf29-6c7d625a4ce0}{134}">Light, dark, sleep, wake, rest, work, play.&nbsp;But for us, artificial light took over the night.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw90319390="" bcx8"="" paraid="31141943" paraeid="{46fb3883-4276-4c05-bf29-6c7d625a4ce0}{144}">Out of sync.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw90319390="" bcx8"="" paraid="1237935280" paraeid="{46fb3883-4276-4c05-bf29-6c7d625a4ce0}{154}">Marching to the beat of a different drum.&nbsp;Now we decide when the day is done.&nbsp;It never is.&nbsp;Prove your worth.&nbsp;Every second counts.&nbsp;Rest less, burn out.&nbsp;Shut down.&nbsp;Artificial light wasn&rsquo;t enough.&nbsp;Enter: artificial minds.&nbsp;Limitless machines, relentlessly efficient, A constant bloodless pulse.&nbsp;In the race for productivity, artificial minds may easily win.&nbsp;But what is lost?&nbsp;Creating, caring, giving&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw90319390="" bcx8"="" paraid="1828121490" paraeid="{46fb3883-4276-4c05-bf29-6c7d625a4ce0}{206}">Computes productivity: 0.&nbsp;But to us, we see true value.&nbsp;You&rsquo;re not a machine.&nbsp;Light, dark, sleep, wake, rest, work, play,&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw90319390="" bcx8"="" paraid="540551419" paraeid="{46fb3883-4276-4c05-bf29-6c7d625a4ce0}{228}">Repaint the boundary line,&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw90319390="" bcx8"="" paraid="310829050" paraeid="{46fb3883-4276-4c05-bf29-6c7d625a4ce0}{236}">Make yourself at home.&nbsp;The only thing that can stay awake is not awake at all.&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>About the Productivity Project&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></p> <p trackedchange="" scxw90319390="" bcx8"="" paraid="382710341" paraeid="{1d1179a5-ab37-4801-b0f7-76c8f2281a45}{2}">&ldquo;Productivity isn&rsquo;t everything, but in the long run, it is almost everything&rdquo; claimed the economist Paul Krugman. Throughout the twentieth century, productivity improved dramatically across the developed world in a greater increase than in the previous 2000 years. Driven by life changing technologies, such as electricity, combustion engines, and phones, living standards increased sevenfold. But since the 2008 financial crisis, despite computerisation and the internet, productivity growth in many countries has been low, static or even, in the case of Japan, falling. &nbsp;</p> <p scxw90319390="" bcx8"="" paraid="709078515" paraeid="{1d1179a5-ab37-4801-b0f7-76c8f2281a45}{13}">Is faltering productivity growth a policy problem to be fixed, or is our obsession with productivity (both economic and cultural) an unhelpful measure of true human flourishing? &nbsp;</p> <p scxw90319390="" bcx8"="" paraid="83120248" paraeid="{1d1179a5-ab37-4801-b0f7-76c8f2281a45}{23}">In this stream of work, Theos explores the changing pressures on (and demands of) our society to argue that we must balance productivity against other measures of success, especially in an increasingly service&ndash;based economy and an age of climate crisis. We particularly explore the natural limits of human attention and the planet we call home, as well as the likely impacts of artificial intelligence, to ask: what does a productive human really look like? &nbsp;</p> <p><strong>Film Credits&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw90319390="" bcx8"="" paraid="167111573" paraeid="{1d1179a5-ab37-4801-b0f7-76c8f2281a45}{44}">Written, directed and designed by Emily Downe&nbsp;</p> <p scxw90319390="" bcx8"="" paraid="540869580" paraeid="{1d1179a5-ab37-4801-b0f7-76c8f2281a45}{50}">Animated by Emily Downe and Martha Halliday&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw90319390="" bcx8"="" paraid="1359427234" paraeid="{1d1179a5-ab37-4801-b0f7-76c8f2281a45}{56}">Music and sound by Jan Willem de With&nbsp;</p> <p scxw90319390="" bcx8"="" paraid="553742933" paraeid="{1d1179a5-ab37-4801-b0f7-76c8f2281a45}{62}">Additional sounds by Richard Johnsen&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw90319390="" bcx8"="" paraid="670814001" paraeid="{1d1179a5-ab37-4801-b0f7-76c8f2281a45}{68}">Produced by Theos with thanks to The Fetzer institute</p> <p scxw90319390="" bcx8"="" paraid="670814001" paraeid="{1d1179a5-ab37-4801-b0f7-76c8f2281a45}{68}">&nbsp;</p> <hr><p><strong>Interested in this? Share it on social media.&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/E9E17CAB71AC7464"><strong>Join our monthly e&ndash;newsletter</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/about/support-us"><strong>Supporter Programme</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to find out how you can help our work.</strong>&nbsp;</p> ]]>
</description>
<author>emily.ikoshi@theosthinktank.co.uk (Emily Ikoshi)</author>
<guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/30/in-sync-with-the-sun</guid>
</item>
<item>
<title>Scandals, Faith Crises & the Spiritual Realm with Rod Dreher</title>
<link>https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/30/scandals-faith-crises-the-spiritual-realm-with-rod-dreher</link>
<pubDate>Wed, 30 Oct 2024 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
<description>
<![CDATA[ <figure><img src="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/assets/generated/articles/page/24aebf5295a5286b97a670b7f0f9116e.jpg" alt="Scandals, Faith Crises & the Spiritual Realm with Rod Dreher" width="600" /></figure><p><em>Elizabeth Oldfield speaks with writer and editor Rod Dreher. 30/10/2024</em></p><hr><p><iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/PZ2xVUxeX30?si=3WmtmVtiuHXSGMdN" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen=""></iframe></p> <p>Rod Dreher and Elizabeth Oldfield delve into Rod&rsquo;s journalism of the Catholic sex abuse scandal, converting to Eastern Orthodoxy, his views on immigration and Donald Trump and supernatural experiences.</p> <p><strong>Chapters</strong></p><p><a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ2xVUxeX30&amp;t=0s" target="" force-new-state="true">00:00</a> What is Sacred to you? Rod Dreher answers&nbsp;</p> <p><a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ2xVUxeX30&amp;t=388s" target="" force-new-state="true">06:28</a> Family, Place, and the Weight of Expectations&nbsp;</p> <p><a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ2xVUxeX30&amp;t=616s" target="" force-new-state="true">10:16</a> Moral Foundations and Personal Crisis&nbsp;</p> <p><a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ2xVUxeX30&amp;t=1074s" target="" force-new-state="true">17:54</a> The Benedict Option: A Call to Intentional Living&nbsp;</p> <p><a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ2xVUxeX30&amp;t=1585s" target="" force-new-state="true">26:25</a> The Journey to Orthodoxy and the Search for Transcendence&nbsp;</p> <p><a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ2xVUxeX30&amp;t=1839s" target="" force-new-state="true">30:39</a> Living in Wonder: Rediscovering the Enchanted World&nbsp;</p> <p><a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ2xVUxeX30&amp;t=1983s" target="" force-new-state="true">33:03</a> The Unseen Battle: Spiritual Awareness&nbsp;</p> <p><a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ2xVUxeX30&amp;t=2204s" target="" force-new-state="true">36:44</a> Encounters with the Divine: Transformative Stories&nbsp;</p> <p><a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ2xVUxeX30&amp;t=2381s" target="" force-new-state="true">39:41</a> Spiritual climate&nbsp;</p> <p><a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ2xVUxeX30&amp;t=2583s" target="" force-new-state="true">43:03</a> Conservative politics, Trump and faith&nbsp;</p> <p><a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ2xVUxeX30&amp;t=2922s" target="" force-new-state="true">48:42</a> The willingness to suffer for your beliefs</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <hr><p><strong>Interested in this? Share it on social media.&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/E9E17CAB71AC7464"><strong>Join our monthly e&ndash;newsletter</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/about/support-us"><strong>Supporter Programme</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to find out how you can help our work.</strong></p> ]]>
</description>
<author>hello@theosthinktank.co.uk (Elizabeth Oldfield)</author>
<guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/30/scandals-faith-crises-the-spiritual-realm-with-rod-dreher</guid>
</item>
<item>
<title>How Did the World Make the West? In conversation with Josephine Quinn</title>
<link>https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/29/how-did-the-world-make-the-west-in-conversation-with-josephine-quinn</link>
<pubDate>Tue, 29 Oct 2024 05:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
<description>
<![CDATA[ <figure><img src="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/assets/generated/articles/page/1d9f1d897c912923a94e011a4e4e7ec0.jpg" alt="How Did the World Make the West? In conversation with Josephine Quinn" width="600" /></figure><p><em>Nick Spencer speaks with Professor of Ancient History, Josephine Quinn. 29/10/2024</em></p><p><iframe src="https://readingourtimes.podigee.io/69-new-episode/embed?context=external&amp;theme=default" style="border: 0" frameborder="0" height="100" width="100%"></iframe></p> <p>About 30 years ago, the American political philosopher Samuel Huntington wrote a hugely influential book entitled The clash of civilizations in which he predicted that the ideological wars of the 20th century would give way to civilisational ones in the 21st.</p> <p>The book drew criticism for the way it talked about &ldquo;civilizations&rdquo; as if they were hard edged and obviously identifiable things. Because the general idea of civilizations is a relatively recent one, and if we peer into the mists of time, we can make out the many streams and tributaries that have poured into the West over the centuries to make it what it is.<br /><br />So, where exactly is our civilisation, &ldquo;the West&rdquo;? How has it been shaped by &ldquo;other&rdquo; cultures? And what does that mean for us today?<br /><br />Buy a copy of Josephine Quinn&rsquo;s book &lsquo;How the World Made the West&rsquo; <a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.waterstones.com/book/how-the-world-made-the-west/josephine-quinn/9781526605184" target="_blank">here</a>.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <hr><p><strong>Interested in this? Share it on social media.&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/E9E17CAB71AC7464"><strong>Join our monthly e&ndash;newsletter</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/about/support-us"><strong>Supporter Programme</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to find out how you can help our work.</strong></p> ]]>
</description>
<author>nick.spencer@theosthinktank.co.uk (Nick Spencer)</author>
<guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/29/how-did-the-world-make-the-west-in-conversation-with-josephine-quinn</guid>
</item>
<item>
<title>Decision by heart string: a reflection on the assisted dying debate</title>
<link>https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/24/decision-by-heart-string-a-reflection-on-the-assisted-dying-debate</link>
<pubDate>Thu, 24 Oct 2024 16:11:00 +0100</pubDate>
<description>
<![CDATA[ <figure><img src="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/assets/generated/articles/page/f6181b8734e2b9b176008333455fed68.jpg" alt="Decision by heart string: a reflection on the assisted dying debate" width="600" /></figure><p><em>Nick Spencer on the role of emotive stories in the assisted dying debate, and what role they should play. 24/10/2024</em></p><p>&ldquo;I have to confess to you I&rsquo;m finding the conversation a distressing one because of [its] tendency to look away from the situation and to deny the reality.&rdquo;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw208099991="" bcx8"="" paraid="125001971" paraeid="{e0d41dc2-1a0f-4b07-98c6-14570b97c152}{183}">So spoke Kit Malthouse MP during a discussion about assisted dying debate, run by the Religion Media Centre last week, in which I participated.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw208099991="" bcx8"="" paraid="627287240" paraeid="{e0d41dc2-1a0f-4b07-98c6-14570b97c152}{207}">He was responding to points that I and others had made about some of the more theoretical issues underlying the debate: dignity, choice, social responsibility, religious duty, and the like.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw208099991="" bcx8"="" paraid="1464187410" paraeid="{e0d41dc2-1a0f-4b07-98c6-14570b97c152}{213}">His point, made with a little frustration but no rudeness, was that discussion about these matters is all well and good but fails to face the grim reality of people dying in despair and pain. &ldquo;People are already killing themselves&rdquo;, he explained. &ldquo;Several hundred a year are blowing their brains out, taking overdoses&hellip; deciding to refuse treatment and starving themselves to death because they&rsquo;re in such pain and agony.&rdquo; The &ldquo;willingness to look away from the horror story of the situation,&rdquo; he concluded, &ldquo;is quite distressing.&rdquo;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw208099991="" bcx8"="" paraid="1157278814" paraeid="{e0d41dc2-1a0f-4b07-98c6-14570b97c152}{247}">A subsequent speaker did pick him up on this. Given that people who campaign against assisted dying usually support &ndash; indeed base many of their arguments on &ndash; palliative care, they can hardly be accused of looking away at the moment of people&rsquo;s suffering.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw208099991="" bcx8"="" paraid="1753874904" paraeid="{09406a2b-8d32-4dff-8909-045c31577f92}{32}">But Malthouse&rsquo;s comment did, albeit inadvertently, highlight one very important dimension of the assisted dying debate that merits attention.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw208099991="" bcx8"="" paraid="281819243" paraeid="{09406a2b-8d32-4dff-8909-045c31577f92}{50}">Those arguing for assisted dying have many upsetting stories on which they can draw. Estimates of the number of people receiving palliative care but who still die in pain range vary. <a scxw208099991="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.ohe.org/publications/unrelieved-pain-palliative-care-england/#post-content" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">One study from 2019</a> calculated that of those who die in a hospice, an average of 13.4% experience some level of unrelieved pain (1.4% not at all relieved, and 12% only partially relieved). It&rsquo;s an uncomfortable fact for those who argue against assisted dying and is made all the more so by the often tragic, and sometimes lurid, stories of people dying in despair, as well as pain, at the end of the life. I am, on balance, against legalising assisted dying (for reasons to be explored in later posts and in the forthcoming Theos report, The Meaning of Dignity). However, after having listened to such stories, I seriously teeter on the brink of changing my mind. Do I really want to be one of those people responsible for others dying in this way?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw208099991="" bcx8"="" paraid="952214871" paraeid="{09406a2b-8d32-4dff-8909-045c31577f92}{129}">The problem with reaching the decision this way, however &ndash; dragged over to one side by the power of heart strings tugged &ndash; is that different stories, equally tragic, equally lurid, can easily drag you back to the other.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw208099991="" bcx8"="" paraid="651662855" paraeid="{09406a2b-8d32-4dff-8909-045c31577f92}{167}">Take the story of the <a scxw208099991="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://lfpress.com/opinion/columnists/coelho-medical-assistance-in-dying-overused-in-canada-even-before-expansion" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">71&ndash;year&ndash;old man</a> from Canada who was told he was terminally ill with end&ndash;stage Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease (COPD), offered Medical Assistance in Dying (MAiD), and euthanized within 48 hours of his first assessment but who, it was discovered on autopsy, did not in fact have COPD. Or the story of the <a scxw208099991="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/may/16/dutch-woman-euthanasia-approval-grounds-of-mental-suffering" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">29&ndash;year&ndash;old Dutch woman</a> who was granted euthanasia on the grounds of unbearable mental suffering, despite being in good physical health. Or the story of the <a scxw208099991="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-rates-of-medical-assistance-in-dying-for-non-terminal-illness-in/#:~:text=In%20a%20third%2C%20a%20man,relatively%20few%20such%20cases%20overall." target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Canadian man in his 40s</a> with inflammatory bowel disease, socially isolated and addicted to opioids and alcohol, who was told about MAiD during a psychiatric assessment and driven to the location where he received an assisted death, without his family being consulted. If one set of awful stories pull you on to one side, another set will pull you back.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw208099991="" bcx8"="" paraid="2093735335" paraeid="{a051cf78-1a50-4759-9472-e121478dbd88}{23}">There are responses to such stories. For example, those in favour of assisted dying will say, yes, there are tragic and upsetting stories, but we can build in safeguards against such slippage. We don&rsquo;t have to end up like Canada.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw208099991="" bcx8"="" paraid="191479523" paraeid="{a051cf78-1a50-4759-9472-e121478dbd88}{51}">On the other side, those against it will say, yes, there are tragic and upsetting stories, but palliative medicine is good despite being chronically underfunded. Just think what palliative care might achieve if only we, as a society, decided seriously to invest in it. That was more or less the substance of Health Secretary <a scxw208099991="" bcx8"="" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/wes-streeting-to-vote-against-assisted-dying-bill-jp075n735" target="_blank" rel="noreferrer noopener">Wes Streeting&rsquo;s recent intervention</a> against the bill.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw208099991="" bcx8"="" paraid="407366373" paraeid="{a051cf78-1a50-4759-9472-e121478dbd88}{88}">And then there are responses to these responses. You probably already know them. More to the point, you can probably already guess the point I&rsquo;m trying to make herе.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw208099991="" bcx8"="" paraid="2004835931" paraeid="{a051cf78-1a50-4759-9472-e121478dbd88}{104}">Tragic, upsetting stories are relevant to this discussion. They are part of the &lsquo;legitimate evidence base&rsquo;, if that isn&rsquo;t too cold a term. We should not, we cannot, &ldquo;look away from the horror story of the situation&rdquo; as Kit Malthouse rightly said.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw208099991="" bcx8"="" paraid="1508525313" paraeid="{a051cf78-1a50-4759-9472-e121478dbd88}{116}">But nor should we allow such stories to make up our minds, as he was implying. Just as we cannot ignore the practical &ldquo;evidence&rdquo; &ndash; whether that is people dying in despair or being euthanised for being depressed or (not actually) ill &ndash; nor can we ignore the principles through which such evidence is interpreted. Questions of dignity, autonomy, responsibility and the like may seem, to some, unnecessarily abstract, but they are an essential part of the debate.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw208099991="" bcx8"="" paraid="1316270225" paraeid="{a051cf78-1a50-4759-9472-e121478dbd88}{176}">All this may seem obvious, but I fear it needs saying. It is precisely because personal tragedy makes such good journalistic copy, that there is a real and present danger that the debate will be decided by those who can tug at the heart strings most successfully. That, in itself, would be a tragedy. We owe it to ourselves to think about this issue, as well as just to feel it.</p> <p scxw208099991="" bcx8"="" paraid="1316270225" paraeid="{a051cf78-1a50-4759-9472-e121478dbd88}{176}">&nbsp;</p> <p scxw208099991="" bcx8"="" paraid="1316270225" paraeid="{a051cf78-1a50-4759-9472-e121478dbd88}{176}">&nbsp;</p> <hr><p scxw208099991="" bcx8"="" paraid="1316270225" paraeid="{a051cf78-1a50-4759-9472-e121478dbd88}{176}"><strong>Interested in this? Share it on social media.&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/E9E17CAB71AC7464"><strong>Join our monthly e&ndash;newsletter</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/about/support-us"><strong>Supporter Programme</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to find out how you can help our work.</strong></p> ]]>
</description>
<author>nick.spencer@theosthinktank.co.uk (Nick Spencer)</author>
<guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/24/decision-by-heart-string-a-reflection-on-the-assisted-dying-debate</guid>
</item>
<item>
<title>Father James Martin on Chastity, Controversy & Building Bridges with LGBTQ Catholics</title>
<link>https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/23/father-james-martin-on-chastity-controversy-building-bridges-with-lgbtq-catholics</link>
<pubDate>Wed, 23 Oct 2024 05:00:00 +0100</pubDate>
<description>
<![CDATA[ <figure><img src="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/assets/generated/articles/page/24aebf5295a5286b97a670b7f0f9116e.jpg" alt="Father James Martin on Chastity, Controversy & Building Bridges with LGBTQ Catholics" width="600" /></figure><p><em>Elizabeth Oldfield speaks with writer and Catholic priest, Fr James Martin. 23/10/2024</em></p><hr><p><iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fIy_uZQqrg4?si=YnxWOPUUMDdLJ5hn" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen=""></iframe></p> <p>Father James Martin and our host, Elizabeth Oldfield discuss his journey to becoming a Catholic priest and the Jesuit motto of finding God in everything. We spoke about the difficulty of living a life of chastity, becoming a vocal advocate for LGBTQ inclusion within the Catholic Church and navigating backlash as a public figure.</p> <p>Purchase Fr James Martin&rsquo;s new book &lsquo;Come Forth&rsquo; here: <a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/redirect?event=video_description&amp;redir_token=QUFFLUhqbGN5a29uWklQS3lXTEk3dl9ybUF5bl9OZkwzUXxBQ3Jtc0tsZ0NDOUtBVU14amswNnpTZi1HMHY3X1BORENsVDZBZkZJbGRfNV9RblY5enJVVnpUTThObG1td3FtWVEzQW9NUHdRSFh4U0t2cGFsRjM2SnVNbm5UbzVkd1dVT0lPRi1VaVVDZTFhNDROLVhtZVVEMA&amp;q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eden.co.uk%2Fchristian-books%2Fbible-study%2Facademic-bible-study%2Fcome-forth%2F&amp;v=fIy_uZQqrg4" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" force-new-state="true">https://www.eden.co.uk/christian-book&hellip;</a></p> <p><strong>Chapters</strong></p><p><a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIy_uZQqrg4&amp;t=0s" target="" force-new-state="true">00:00</a> What is Sacred to you? Father James Martin replies&nbsp;<br /><a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIy_uZQqrg4&amp;t=54s" target="" force-new-state="true">00:54</a> Understanding the Sacred <br /><a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIy_uZQqrg4&amp;t=170s" target="" force-new-state="true">02:50</a> The Role of Discernment in Life <br /><a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIy_uZQqrg4&amp;t=346s" target="" force-new-state="true">05:46</a> Childhood Influences and Early Life <br /><a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIy_uZQqrg4&amp;t=548s" target="" force-new-state="true">09:08</a> Transitioning from Business to Jesuit Life <br /><a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIy_uZQqrg4&amp;t=716s" target="" force-new-state="true">11:56</a> Exploring Religious Orders <br /><a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIy_uZQqrg4&amp;t=891s" target="" force-new-state="true">14:51</a> Community Living and Its Challenges <br /><a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIy_uZQqrg4&amp;t=1090s" target="" force-new-state="true">18:10</a> Chastity is difficult <br /><a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIy_uZQqrg4&amp;t=1205s" target="" force-new-state="true">20:05</a> Having a public voice <br /> <a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIy_uZQqrg4&amp;t=1380s" target="" force-new-state="true">23:00</a> Advocacy for the LGBTQ Community <br /><a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIy_uZQqrg4&amp;t=1636s" target="" force-new-state="true">27:16</a> Spiritual Rejection and backlash <br /><a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIy_uZQqrg4&amp;t=1926s" target="" force-new-state="true">32:06</a> Understanding Radicalisation and Disagreement <br /><a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIy_uZQqrg4&amp;t=2072s" target="" force-new-state="true">34:32</a> The Role of Politics in Division <br /><a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIy_uZQqrg4&amp;t=2338s" target="" force-new-state="true">38:58</a> Finding the Balance in Discourse <br /><a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIy_uZQqrg4&amp;t=2424s" target="" force-new-state="true">40:24</a> Exploring the Themes of &lsquo;Come Forth&rsquo; <br /><a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIy_uZQqrg4&amp;t=2684s" target="" force-new-state="true">44:44</a> Jesuit Wisdom on Understanding Others <br /><a yt-core-attributed-string__link--call-to-action-color"="" tabindex="0" href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIy_uZQqrg4&amp;t=2946s" target="" force-new-state="true">49:06</a> The Importance of Connection in Disagreement</p> <p><strong>The Sacred with James Martin&nbsp;</strong></p> <p><strong>What is sacred to you? Father James Martin responds.&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1802958623" paraeid="{183781fc-0d64-46d2-8f50-72e2a3de3457}{187}"><strong>Elizabeth</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="246983185" paraeid="{183781fc-0d64-46d2-8f50-72e2a3de3457}{193}">Father James, we&rsquo;re going to kick off with a question that you can really take in any direction you like. For people who aren&rsquo;t coming from a religious perspective, it&rsquo;s often more about their deep values and principles. I&rsquo;m trying to get a sense of what you would like to be orientating you in your life. So I&rsquo;m going to ask, what is sacred to you?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="706256701" paraeid="{183781fc-0d64-46d2-8f50-72e2a3de3457}{247}"><strong>Fr James Martin&nbsp;</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="488985019" paraeid="{183781fc-0d64-46d2-8f50-72e2a3de3457}{255}">Oh gosh. Well, first of all, thanks for having me on, it&rsquo;s a real honour. What is sacred to me? You know, I&rsquo;m a Jesuit, and one of our mottos is finding God in all things. And so I guess I could say everything really is sacred. That doesn&rsquo;t mean every act is sacred, but you know, every person you meet is sacred. I think everything that&rsquo;s created by God is sacred. But you know, in my life, the sacred is really focused around Jesus, that&rsquo;s what the heart of my spiritual life is about. So I would say, in my life, it&rsquo;s not so much what is sacred, but who is sacred? And that would be, for me, Jesus.&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>Understanding the Sacred&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="999933243" paraeid="{f1c1c8c6-2922-4bec-8011-68d235f3f6fc}{98}"><strong>Elizabeth&nbsp;</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="20567743" paraeid="{f1c1c8c6-2922-4bec-8011-68d235f3f6fc}{104}">For someone who that&rsquo;s not their tradition. Honestly, the question that comes up is, what does that mean? What does it look like for you?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="342227873" paraeid="{f1c1c8c6-2922-4bec-8011-68d235f3f6fc}{122}"><strong>Fr James Martin</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1381362507" paraeid="{f1c1c8c6-2922-4bec-8011-68d235f3f6fc}{130}">I know, it is kind of crazy. So what does that mean? There&rsquo;s two ways of answering that question. So as I said, I&rsquo;m a Jesuit, and one of our mottos is finding God in all things. And that means that God can be found not just in reading the Bible or doing good works or going to church or praying, but in relationships and family and work and nature and art, which is really a very capacious spirituality. That that&rsquo;s the first thing that I mean when I talk about the sacred. But the center of my faith is really focused on Jesus. Now, what does that mean? You&rsquo;re right, that can be vague. So it means Jesus as we meet Jesus in the gospels, you know Jesus&rsquo; actions, his words and his deeds. But we also believe that Jesus has risen from the dead and&nbsp; is present to us through the Holy Spirit, and so through the Spirit, is sort of leading us to do good things. We find Jesus in the church and in the sacraments. So there&rsquo;s all sorts of ways of encountering Jesus. So yeah, I would say that when I hear &lsquo;sacred&rsquo;, those are the two things that come up: finding God in all things, the sacred in everyday life, and also the person of Jesus. That that&rsquo;s how I would answer that question for me, at least.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>The Role of Discernment in Life&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="31862779" paraeid="{5dcfa520-2b83-4f2a-bc04-28a11c3d51e1}{29}"><strong>Elizabeth</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1754670920" paraeid="{5dcfa520-2b83-4f2a-bc04-28a11c3d51e1}{35}">Can you think of a moment in your life when those sacred things have been tested. I often think we&rsquo;re not sure what are the things we&rsquo;re trying to live by sometimes, until these moments of challenge or moral profundity or the temptation to compromise. You know, when we&rsquo;re at a fork in the road and our life could go one way or the other, can you think of a moment where they have guided you, and sometimes we fail so you might not have chosen what you would have wished to at the time, but does anything come to mind?&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1963738886" paraeid="{5dcfa520-2b83-4f2a-bc04-28a11c3d51e1}{91}"><strong>Fr James Martin</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="910286493" paraeid="{5dcfa520-2b83-4f2a-bc04-28a11c3d51e1}{99}">I mean, I think just things recently, you know, in my own life. One of the things that&rsquo;s helpful to understand is that we Jesuits talk about, this is going to sound like a very strange term, discernment of spirits, which sounds like it&rsquo;s like ghosts flying around! But it basically means that there are impulses, movements, when I say voices, I don&rsquo;t mean actually hearing voices, but you know the movements within you, voices that pull you one way or another. And there are impulses and movements and voices that pull us towards God, right? The charitable, loving, hopeful impulses and wants to move us away from God, selfish, mean spirited, despairing. And what we talk about in the Jesuits is, not only that God wants us to make good decisions, but God helps us to make good decisions through what we call discernment of spirits. In other words, you can kind of gage within yourself, what&rsquo;s coming from God and what&rsquo;s not coming from God. And recently, I was in a situation I want to get too detailed, where I just felt really despairing and just kind of miserable and turned in on myself. And I, thanks to discernment of spirits, said, this is clearly not coming from God.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="769215544" paraeid="{5dcfa520-2b83-4f2a-bc04-28a11c3d51e1}{181}">I often use the example these days, thank God we&rsquo;re more or less past it, of the pandemic. And people were so despairing, right? Nothing will change. I&rsquo;m sure you, maybe you experienced it personally, or you knew people that were like this. And the short hand was for me, that despair is never coming from God, it just isn&rsquo;t, and hope is really always coming from God. That doesn&rsquo;t mean everything&rsquo;s always going to be perfect, and sunshine and lollipops and rainbows, but the feelings of despair are not feelings to follow. So that&rsquo;s how in the Jesuits, as we say, we discern which way to go.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>Childhood Influences and Early Life&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="768247163" paraeid="{b90b5eec-f3fe-477b-807b-de34a9d05ca5}{14}"><strong>Elizabeth&nbsp;</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="387135852" paraeid="{b90b5eec-f3fe-477b-807b-de34a9d05ca5}{20}">Thank you. I&rsquo;d love to get a sense of your story. Could you paint me a picture of you as, maybe we&rsquo;d call it primary school age, I guess, kind of eight, or nine or ten, what was your world? And particularly, what were the big ideas that have been formatted on your later life?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1006410607" paraeid="{b90b5eec-f3fe-477b-807b-de34a9d05ca5}{70}"><strong>Fr James Martin</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="483259114" paraeid="{b90b5eec-f3fe-477b-807b-de34a9d05ca5}{76}">Well I&rsquo;m laughing because I&rsquo;m writing a memoir now about just that, which is tons of fun, and I&rsquo;m sort of living in that world. I&rsquo;m laughing not at your question. It&rsquo;s a great question, I think, like big ideas as an eight&ndash;year&ndash;old, it was, you know, how am I going to do on my math test? and&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="202471505" paraeid="{b90b5eec-f3fe-477b-807b-de34a9d05ca5}{132}"><strong>Elizabeth</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="2044274300" paraeid="{b90b5eec-f3fe-477b-807b-de34a9d05ca5}{138}">How much sugar am I allowed?&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1279404817" paraeid="{b90b5eec-f3fe-477b-807b-de34a9d05ca5}{154}"><strong>Fr James Martin&nbsp;</strong>&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1260703787" paraeid="{b90b5eec-f3fe-477b-807b-de34a9d05ca5}{160}">Ha! What TV shows can I watch? I grew up outside of Philadelphia, in a suburban town. It was a very, if you&rsquo;re familiar with this TV show, a very Brady Bunch, kind of lifestyle. In the suburbs, middle class. Not particularly religious, my family wasn&rsquo;t super religious well we were Catholic, but, you know. I went to public school, now I know that means something different over there in the UK, meaning not a private school, not paid. And so I was just this kind of average kid, biking to school and working hard, and I was good in school and wasn&rsquo;t really thinking about much else, other than doing well in school and friends. That was really important to me, having friends and being cool. When I was a young person, that was the focus of my life. How do I get people to like me? How can I be cool? How can I be in the &lsquo;in crowd&rsquo;? And eventually that&rsquo;s kind of paralyzing, because if you&rsquo;re just dependent on what other people think of you, you don&rsquo;t have any real freedom. I mean, that took me a while. I certainly didn&rsquo;t know that when I was eight or nine or even in high school. So yeah, just this kid who was trying to do well in school. And eventually I went to the University of Pennsylvania&rsquo;s Wharton School of Business, studied business, worked for General Electric for a couple years, and then I entered the Jesuits. But yeah, I was a nice kid, but I don&rsquo;t think I was thinking any big ideas, that&rsquo;s for sure.&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>Transitioning from Business to Jesuit Life&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1807258254" paraeid="{dad4d769-ce0e-43cd-8e08-deedac96da0c}{93}"><strong>Elizabeth</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="2112517325" paraeid="{dad4d769-ce0e-43cd-8e08-deedac96da0c}{99}">So what was it that led you to study business? What was the thread you were pulling on?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="594521878" paraeid="{dad4d769-ce0e-43cd-8e08-deedac96da0c}{113}"><strong>Fr James Martin&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1308336257" paraeid="{dad4d769-ce0e-43cd-8e08-deedac96da0c}{121}">Yeah well my dad was in business, and pretty much all the families I knew in the street, the fathers, not the mothers, at this time, this was in the 60s. I mean, some did, some were teachers and but the fathers all went to work, and so we didn&rsquo;t have a lot of money. And when I went to college, I thought, well, you have to get a job, so what&rsquo;s the best thing to do to? Go into business. And I studied finance, and I did well, and ended up at this great job at General Electric, formerly a great company. But, I say this in the book and I&rsquo;ve said this in several of my books, there was really no one to say, what do you want to do with your life? Like, what would make you happy? What are you called to do? The idea of a vocation, never did anyone ask me that. I mean, my parents were like, how do you like business? Well, you seem to be good in business. Why not do that? They weren&rsquo;t against it, and I don&rsquo;t mean to denigrate them at all, but we didn&rsquo;t have a lot of money. They were Depression era babies, and so you&rsquo;ve got to make a living. And so that was the most practical thing I could do. And but eventually I just didn&rsquo;t really like it.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="110955088" paraeid="{dad4d769-ce0e-43cd-8e08-deedac96da0c}{249}"><strong>Elizabeth&nbsp;</strong>&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="2050087440" paraeid="{dad4d769-ce0e-43cd-8e08-deedac96da0c}{255}">I&rsquo;ve heard you talk about that time, there&rsquo;s this little vignette that made me really sad of you being at your desk writing, &lsquo;I hate my life. I hate my life&rsquo; on a piece of paper. It sounds like you were quite ill?&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1414734469" paraeid="{5606fda0-0873-4187-b4f0-a3e8703c667f}{44}"><strong>Fr James Martin</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="2098843878" paraeid="{5606fda0-0873-4187-b4f0-a3e8703c667f}{52}">Yeah I mean, I only wrote it once!&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="946080056" paraeid="{5606fda0-0873-4187-b4f0-a3e8703c667f}{70}"><strong>Elizabeth</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1989650228" paraeid="{5606fda0-0873-4187-b4f0-a3e8703c667f}{76}">It wasn&rsquo;t like plastered all over the walls?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1982820406" paraeid="{5606fda0-0873-4187-b4f0-a3e8703c667f}{94}"><strong>Fr James Martin&nbsp;</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="107682012" paraeid="{5606fda0-0873-4187-b4f0-a3e8703c667f}{102}">Ha no. I mean, basically what happened was this, I studied at Wharton, at Penn. I had a great time at the University of Pennsylvania. I did, and it was fascinating. Business is fascinating. I mean, you know, I knew nothing about it. This was in 1982 I graduated. I was a yuppie. You&rsquo;re familiar with that term, young urban professional. I was in New York in my 20s, making a ton of money&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1957773227" paraeid="{5606fda0-0873-4187-b4f0-a3e8703c667f}{140}"><strong>Elizabeth</strong>&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1160206641" paraeid="{5606fda0-0873-4187-b4f0-a3e8703c667f}{146}">And doing quite a lot of clubbing. Is that, right?&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1848276245" paraeid="{5606fda0-0873-4187-b4f0-a3e8703c667f}{164}"><strong>Fr James Martin</strong>&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1557529370" paraeid="{5606fda0-0873-4187-b4f0-a3e8703c667f}{170}">Yeah, well you will see how much when this new book comes out, yeah, a lot of it.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="39497559" paraeid="{5606fda0-0873-4187-b4f0-a3e8703c667f}{192}"><strong>Elizabeth</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1241956096" paraeid="{5606fda0-0873-4187-b4f0-a3e8703c667f}{198}">Well I did a lot of clubbing a lot in my youth. I think there&rsquo;s something ecstatic about it.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1008356827" paraeid="{5606fda0-0873-4187-b4f0-a3e8703c667f}{222}"><strong>Fr James Martin&nbsp;</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="612031479" paraeid="{5606fda0-0873-4187-b4f0-a3e8703c667f}{230}">I was in my 20s and drinking a lot, and it was exciting. You know I was a yuppie. But what happened was I basically took a job at another section of GE, in GE Capital in finance, and it just got more and more stressful. And I just thought, what am I doing? I don&rsquo;t really like this. It&rsquo;s not really interesting. Business is a real vocation for a lot of people, and I just couldn&rsquo;t see a way out. I thought, well, I&rsquo;d studied business, what am I going to do? I and there was really no one to kind of encourage me to think more creatively and I felt stuck. And one night, I came home and saw a TV show about Thomas Merton, the American Trappist monk, and it just blew me away, just the whole idea the monastery and prayer, about which I knew zero. I mean, I really had no idea who Thomas Merton was. I knew there were monks and they prayed, and I don&rsquo;t know what do they do? And that really just was so romantic and so beautiful, that was what drew me. And, you know, looking back, I&rsquo;m not sure, depending on who&rsquo;s listening, this is how God calls us. God calls us mainly through these attractions and desires. From a simple point of view, like, if you are a business person, you love business, you&rsquo;re going to be drawn to that. Or an attorney, or someone who works for in radio or podcast, or religion. Even in terms of marriage, that&rsquo;s how it happens, people are drawn together. It&rsquo;s a call and that&rsquo;s how it worked for me.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="974493394" paraeid="{a1d07b27-4a52-4ee6-922f-a51e81929662}{123}"><strong>Elizabeth&nbsp;</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="2012333332" paraeid="{a1d07b27-4a52-4ee6-922f-a51e81929662}{129}">Had you been going to church this whole time? How much had the faith that you&rsquo;d inherited from your parents been a kind of live part of your identity through that whole period?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="585844456" paraeid="{a1d07b27-4a52-4ee6-922f-a51e81929662}{147}"><strong>Fr James Martin&nbsp;</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="825747124" paraeid="{a1d07b27-4a52-4ee6-922f-a51e81929662}{155}">Kind of on and off. I mean, I didn&rsquo;t go to Catholic school ever. In elementary school, I went most Sundays. My parents weren&rsquo;t super religious, but if we missed mass, it wasn&rsquo;t the end of the world. Junior High School and High School &ndash; yeah, most Sundays. College, when I wasn&rsquo;t too hungover, I would go to Mass. And, at GE, most Sundays. But that&rsquo;s all, I went to mass and I don&rsquo;t think I ever talked to a priest outside of mass, ever. I mean they would visit our homes in the 60s, something called the block collection, going to different blocks and asking for money. The priest would visit you, and it was very awkward, because I didn&rsquo;t know any priests. I was a kind of lukewarm Catholic, I sometimes call myself and all my friends were shocked when I told them what I was doing.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="289095207" paraeid="{19a487e1-6c59-46f6-a079-4e8c05dc58ea}{18}"><strong>Elizabeth</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="621780913" paraeid="{19a487e1-6c59-46f6-a079-4e8c05dc58ea}{24}">And what was the hunger? What was it about it that made you feel that I hate this life, I might love that life?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1226697047" paraeid="{19a487e1-6c59-46f6-a079-4e8c05dc58ea}{38}"><strong>Fr James Martin&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1165124541" paraeid="{19a487e1-6c59-46f6-a079-4e8c05dc58ea}{46}">Well, it was a push and a pull. So I did hate that life, so it was pushing me. So that wasn&rsquo;t some big discernment. I didn&rsquo;t like it. I was stressed out, I was getting all these stomach problems, I was getting migraines. I was just stressed, it was like almost 24/7. And the pull was this other life, whatever it was that Thomas Merton seemed to represent, seems so romantic, so beautiful, just seems so beautiful, like life in a monastery and helping people. And then I stumbled across the Jesuits. Someone randomly said you should talk to the Jesuits, which are a Catholic religious order, and that seemed to fit. I didn&rsquo;t think I&rsquo;d be a monk because, as you can tell, I talk a lot, but that&rsquo;s how it sort of happened. You know, God writes straight with crooked lines, as the proverb says.&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>Exploring Religious Orders&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="283676472" paraeid="{19a487e1-6c59-46f6-a079-4e8c05dc58ea}{146}"><strong>Elizabeth&nbsp;</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="201842676" paraeid="{19a487e1-6c59-46f6-a079-4e8c05dc58ea}{152}">And I do not come from a Catholic background. I think I had a sense of what a priest is, and I kind of knew what a monk was, but I am being slowly introduced to this whole new world of different religious orders, like the Jesuits. What is a religious order?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1502275769" paraeid="{19a487e1-6c59-46f6-a079-4e8c05dc58ea}{176}"><strong>Fr James Martin&nbsp;</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="295693884" paraeid="{19a487e1-6c59-46f6-a079-4e8c05dc58ea}{184}">So, okay, most people know parish priests. Like they get that a parish priest, he&rsquo;s ordained, he works in the parish, he&rsquo;s under the bishop in the diocese, right? Sometimes they become bishops etcetera. There&rsquo;s another way of being a priest or a brother, which is by living in community together. We take vows of poverty, so everything goes to the community. Chastity, we don&rsquo;t get married. Obedience, we&rsquo;re told kind of where to go, and we are living together, right? It&rsquo;s not in a rectory, but in a religious community. So the ones that people would know would be the Franciscans &ndash; they&rsquo;re a religious order, the Dominicans, very big in the UK, of course, the Trappists, there are monastic orders, and&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1707423741" paraeid="{978a9feb-8d85-4a53-8abe-843fe6b6319d}{17}"><strong>Elizabeth&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="2080336046" paraeid="{978a9feb-8d85-4a53-8abe-843fe6b6319d}{23}">And they&rsquo;re the silent ones?&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="356225233" paraeid="{978a9feb-8d85-4a53-8abe-843fe6b6319d}{51}"><strong>Fr James Martin&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="610988637" paraeid="{978a9feb-8d85-4a53-8abe-843fe6b6319d}{61}">Yeah Trappists are the silent ones. But even more silent would be like the Carthusians, really. If you ever seen the movie Into Great Silence, that was a great movie about the Carthusians. So it&rsquo;s just two ways of being a priest or a brother, and there arr sisters, of course. There are women&rsquo;s religious orders, and they&rsquo;re all under the Pope. Basically, they&rsquo;re the same. So I don&rsquo;t work in a parish. You can see this office, I work in a magazine. Most Jesuits are known for working in schools. So a lot of the schools in the UK, and parishes in the UK, and Farm Street, you know, is our big parish in London and whatnot. So we do all sorts of different things, but the key is, we live in community. We take those vows, we were founded by Saint Ignatius Loyola, and we also do a lot of retreat works and spirituality.&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>Community Living and Its Challenges&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1244603390" paraeid="{978a9feb-8d85-4a53-8abe-843fe6b6319d}{187}"><strong>Elizabeth&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong>&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1266091230" paraeid="{978a9feb-8d85-4a53-8abe-843fe6b6319d}{193}">So I should confess, the reason I&rsquo;ve got interested in all of this is that this house that I&rsquo;m sitting in is a very small experiment in intentional community. So my husband and kids and I have moved in with another family and turned the garage into a chapel, and we do kind of morning prayer and evening prayer. And we have a Rule of Life, and we&rsquo;re trying to do sort of rhythms of prayer and hospitality. But we&rsquo;re bodging this together from books and podcasts and like helpful modern translations of the rule of Saint Benedict, not the original because it&rsquo;s too hard to read! But it&rsquo;s a kind of recent interest in my life, this kind of monastic understanding of how we how we live together. What does it mean to love each other? What does it mean to grow together? And I think in this moment, whether you&rsquo;re religious or not, the sort of trust crisis, loneliness crisis, housing crisis, climate crisis, means there&rsquo;s an openness to the possibility that this tradition might have something to teach us, that this way of living might have something to teach us, whilst at the same time, certainly in the UK, like I think membership of religious orders is going right down. Do you see something changing in the way people think or talk about this? Or is there always a bit of interest and it holds steady across time.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="869099045" paraeid="{286dae32-6568-4c8b-a4c3-9d7caf2cbe62}{18}"><strong>Fr James Martin&nbsp;</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1868029912" paraeid="{286dae32-6568-4c8b-a4c3-9d7caf2cbe62}{26}">I would say the latter, I think there&rsquo;s always a bit of interest. I think there is a lot of loneliness in society today, and there&rsquo;s a lot of isolation, and so people are looking for community. That&rsquo;s a that&rsquo;s a big word, I&rsquo;m sure you hear that on your podcast all the time! I think the difference is for the Jesuits, it has a purpose, and it&rsquo;s serving God, carrying out God&rsquo;s will, doing charitable works, those kinds of things. And in a sense, the thing that makes it kind of easier for us than in your situation, is that there is this organizing governing principle, and we have vows of obedience. And so when we have the superior of the community who says we&rsquo;re going to do this and we do it right. It&rsquo;s not blind obedience. But the idea would be, okay, Jim, now you&rsquo;ve been an America magazine for 25 years now I want you to go work at this parish. And so there&rsquo;s a kind of structure there as well, and we don&rsquo;t say no, because we take this vow of obedience. We believe that God&rsquo;s working through this. That&rsquo;s, that&rsquo;s the challenge in a situation like yours, because, who&rsquo;s in charge? And who says what time we&rsquo;re eating dinner? And who says how &ndash;&nbsp; the the kitchen&rsquo;s always a big thing &ndash; who says how the dishwasher is unloaded or not unloaded? I&rsquo;m sure you&rsquo;re smiling, because I know you&rsquo;ve been through all this.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1215917251" paraeid="{286dae32-6568-4c8b-a4c3-9d7caf2cbe62}{208}"><strong>Elizabeth&nbsp;</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1782198728" paraeid="{286dae32-6568-4c8b-a4c3-9d7caf2cbe62}{214}">It&rsquo;s because it&rsquo;s the biggest argument we&rsquo;ve ever had!&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1501654023" paraeid="{286dae32-6568-4c8b-a4c3-9d7caf2cbe62}{238}"><strong>Fr James Martin</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="2056559454" paraeid="{286dae32-6568-4c8b-a4c3-9d7caf2cbe62}{244}">And one of the easy things about living in a religious house is you know the tradition, and this is how we do it. And you buy into that. So I think it&rsquo;s harder for families to do it. And we&rsquo;ve also been doing it for 450, years. So it doesn&rsquo;t always work, but we&rsquo;ve gotten most of the kinks out of it, right?&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="960009983" paraeid="{c2083be3-fc85-482e-9e36-70db1694de5e}{37}"><strong>Elizabeth</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="668078819" paraeid="{c2083be3-fc85-482e-9e36-70db1694de5e}{43}">Yeah, you know all the things that can go wrong.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="955883663" paraeid="{c2083be3-fc85-482e-9e36-70db1694de5e}{65}"><strong>Fr James Martin</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1652903358" paraeid="{c2083be3-fc85-482e-9e36-70db1694de5e}{73}">Oh yeah, definitely. And all my salary, goes to my community. The end, I don&rsquo;t see any of it. And, you know, I get what I need for my community, but there&rsquo;s no, there&rsquo;s no money arguments in our house.&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>Chastity is difficult&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1492557825" paraeid="{c2083be3-fc85-482e-9e36-70db1694de5e}{127}"><strong>Elizabeth</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="159328503" paraeid="{c2083be3-fc85-482e-9e36-70db1694de5e}{133}">Yeah. So this is quite personal, but I get asked this question a lot, what is the hardest thing about living in a religious community?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1912784342" paraeid="{c2083be3-fc85-482e-9e36-70db1694de5e}{151}"><strong>Fr James Martin&nbsp;</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1887268939" paraeid="{c2083be3-fc85-482e-9e36-70db1694de5e}{159}">Chastity, definitely. I mean, you know, it can be lonely and you don&rsquo;t have an exclusive relationship, as we call it, and lack of physical intimacy, that&rsquo;s definitely the toughest. Anyone who tells you otherwise is not being true. But by the same token, I live with wonderful people, I have tons of friends, I have a lot of love in my life, and it works for me. And I think, if I were in a relationship, I think I&rsquo;d actually get bored. I think I kind of know myself well enough. Poverty is not as difficult, except at times. And I&rsquo;ve never found obedience difficult, frankly. Obedience, mainly in the Jesuits, is, we want you to work here, that&rsquo;s what the obedience comes down to. But yeah, chastity is definitely the hardest.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1550915961" paraeid="{ede5095e-2b7e-4326-b61d-b92d2352cdbd}{10}"><strong>Elizabeth&nbsp;</strong>&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="176920520" paraeid="{ede5095e-2b7e-4326-b61d-b92d2352cdbd}{16}">Thanks for raising that. It&rsquo;s down on my list of questions, because reading your writing honestly, and obviously there&rsquo;s lots that I won&rsquo;t have read, but it felt like one of the few times I&rsquo;ve heard that spoken about with such honesty and actually, such tenderness. You know, the ways the public conversation about priestly chastity is either this sort of salacious, icky, overly interested, you know. Or the like but it is God&rsquo;s call, and it is important, and there is no problem. Why do you feel able to talk about it in public, and what are the healthier ways we could narrate it?&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1303764286" paraeid="{ede5095e-2b7e-4326-b61d-b92d2352cdbd}{82}"><strong>Fr James Martin&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1362501911" paraeid="{ede5095e-2b7e-4326-b61d-b92d2352cdbd}{90}">As I&rsquo;ve lived it for 36 years, I&rsquo;ve been saying to people, do you have any aunts or uncles that are unmarried? Oh yeah, so and so. Any cousins? Oh yeah. Are they crazy? No, they&rsquo;re just unmarried. Why are they unmarried? They&rsquo;ve chosen to be unmarried, or things didn&rsquo;t work out, or they&rsquo;re widowed. Are they nuts? Are they like, sick? No.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="440251580" paraeid="{ede5095e-2b7e-4326-b61d-b92d2352cdbd}{150}">So I think that needs to be kind of reminded, I often remind people that. I was like, Do you have any aunts or uncles that are unmarried? Oh, sure, they&rsquo;re wonderful. Are they loving? Oh, I love her, she&rsquo;s wonderful. Is she a loving part of your family? Oh, she&rsquo;s amazing, the kids love her more because she has more time. Yeah, that&rsquo;s kind of what we&rsquo;re getting at. But the idea that people would choose it, it just kind of freaks people out. So I think it&rsquo;s just important to talk about it honestly. But yeah you&rsquo;ve identified them very well. The two strains are: that&rsquo;s crazy, no one can do it, you&rsquo;re sick or, you&rsquo;re so holy you&rsquo;re a saint. And it&rsquo;s just as wrong to talk about motherhood that way. Oh, mothers are saints or, you know, mothers they they&rsquo;re so dysfunctional and they screw up their kids. And so it&rsquo;s another way of living in the world, another way of loving, I would say.&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>Having a public voice&nbsp;</strong></p> <p><strong>Elizabeth&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="137500549" paraeid="{52b73a01-a90d-436e-96d0-9ba235754cba}{75}">Yeah. Thank you. I want to talk about your vocation in particular, as someone shaping the public conversation. At what point in your journey did you think, actually I need to use my voice in public, or were you told to by your order?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="2079277719" paraeid="{52b73a01-a90d-436e-96d0-9ba235754cba}{105}"><strong>Fr James Martin&nbsp;</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="518445197" paraeid="{52b73a01-a90d-436e-96d0-9ba235754cba}{113}">So I went through what&rsquo;s called formation Jesuit training, we call formation because you&rsquo;re formed. And what did I do? I studied philosophy at Loyola University Chicago. I worked for two years in East Africa with refugees, helping them start small businesses. I came back and worked at America Media for a year. We work full&ndash;time during our studies. I studied theology for three or four years, I forget how long. And then I was assigned to work at America Media. And pretty much from the get&ndash;go, you&rsquo;re writing articles, and I was writing books. So from the beginning, after my ordination, I was kind of contributing things I would say in the public square. And then recently, I started to do more work with the LGBTQ community, starting about 2016. Most of my work has been writing books about spirituality and prayer and the saints, things like that, a little more mainstream than the more recent work that I&rsquo;ve done, which has brought me much more into the public eye!&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="510901967" paraeid="{52b73a01-a90d-436e-96d0-9ba235754cba}{213}"><strong>Elizabeth&nbsp;</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1010403505" paraeid="{52b73a01-a90d-436e-96d0-9ba235754cba}{219}">What prompted that in 2016? What happened?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="456359304" paraeid="{52b73a01-a90d-436e-96d0-9ba235754cba}{237}"><strong>Fr James Martin&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong>&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1276174592" paraeid="{52b73a01-a90d-436e-96d0-9ba235754cba}{243}">The Pulse nightclub massacre happened, which you may remember in 2016, 49 people&hellip;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="2136793017" paraeid="{3b8062b2-b299-43b0-a3b5-9bc16bc4f4ef}{4}"><strong>Elizabeth&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1484852440" paraeid="{3b8062b2-b299-43b0-a3b5-9bc16bc4f4ef}{10}">Was that Miami?&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>Advocacy for the LGBTQ Community&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></p><p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="645737002" paraeid="{3b8062b2-b299-43b0-a3b5-9bc16bc4f4ef}{24}"><strong>Fr James Martin&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="645737002" paraeid="{3b8062b2-b299-43b0-a3b5-9bc16bc4f4ef}{24}">Yeah, Orlando, at a nightclub. And I felt that the church&rsquo;s response was really pretty pathetic. And I thought if this were any other group, we would be saying how we should pray with them and having masses for them and I did a Facebook post that went viral, when viral was a good thing, and pre&ndash;pandemic. And then that led to a talk and a book called Building a Bridge and that led to this ministry. We were talking about discernment before, each step I was discerning, is this the right thing to do? Should I do a Facebook post? Should I do this talk? Should I do this book? And then I got invited to give all these talks, and there was a lot of pushback. Then I was invited by the Vatican to give a talk at The World Meeting of Families in Dublin in 2018. I met with the Pope in 2019 and he supported the work, and it just sort of took off. And now we have this ministry called Outreach, our website is Outreach.faith, and we&rsquo;re even having an event, which I can say at the Synod during the Synod in Rome in a couple of weeks. So that&rsquo;s been interesting; that&rsquo;s been a real shift in my life. And it&rsquo;s not something that I planned, it just kind of happened. But I discerned each step of the way, and also asked for permission each step of the way. I think most people now today, if they know me at all, they know me more for the LGBT stuff. And I&rsquo;ve become this figure, it&rsquo;s just the strangest thing. This boy who was biking to school didn&rsquo;t expect to be this person that everybody either hates or loves. It&rsquo;s very strange.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="2142893593" paraeid="{3b8062b2-b299-43b0-a3b5-9bc16bc4f4ef}{174}"><strong>Elizabeth&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="135736092" paraeid="{3b8062b2-b299-43b0-a3b5-9bc16bc4f4ef}{180}">This might reveal my naivety, but you know you say you ask for permission every step of the way, presumably, because there&rsquo;s a lot of people that would see this as a change or in opposition to Catholic teaching, there must have been some turbulence internally about your identity and your sense of belonging and the possible cost of this?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="861270209" paraeid="{3b8062b2-b299-43b0-a3b5-9bc16bc4f4ef}{198}"><strong>Fr James Martin&nbsp;</strong>&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1212285894" paraeid="{3b8062b2-b299-43b0-a3b5-9bc16bc4f4ef}{206}">Well, yeah, I didn&rsquo;t realize when I when I wrote a book called Building a Bridge, and it&rsquo;s very small, it&rsquo;s 120 pages, I thought we what we call in the United States, &lsquo;a one off&rsquo;, it&rsquo;ll be used by parishes, and I&rsquo;ll move on to my other stuff. Yeah,&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1747510829" paraeid="{f9718154-99c4-464b-bf9e-634dcca31434}{27}"><strong>Elizabeth&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="815798935" paraeid="{f9718154-99c4-464b-bf9e-634dcca31434}{33}">Yeah and go back to writing about the saints?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="538724075" paraeid="{f9718154-99c4-464b-bf9e-634dcca31434}{47}"><strong>Fr James Martin</strong>&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1220624836" paraeid="{f9718154-99c4-464b-bf9e-634dcca31434}{53}">Well, yeah, which I actually feel much more comfortable about. My new book is called Come Forth, it&rsquo;s about Lazarus, and it&rsquo;s what I feel more comfortable doing. I&rsquo;m not a controversialist. I really hate that kind of stuff. But at each step of the way, I felt like this was the right thing to do. It is the right thing to speak up for LGBTQ people, you know, for whom very few people are advocating in the Catholic Church. I thought that was really important. And so when I asked for permission, it was more that I knew that as a Jesuit, it would affect other Jesuits, and I&rsquo;m part of a whole and I can&rsquo;t just strike out on my own and do what I want. And even though I felt that it was the right thing, I needed to say to my superiors, I&rsquo;m going to do this, does this make sense? Yes, that&rsquo;s fine. And sometimes they say, no, we don&rsquo;t want you to do that. And that&rsquo;s the benefit of doing all this from within the church, is that I think I have more of a voice. The negative is that sometimes they say, no, you can&rsquo;t do that. So it&rsquo;s kind of navigating that, that&rsquo;s where the obedience comes in. That&rsquo;s a new kind of obedience for me. It&rsquo;s kind of checking with people and making sure it&rsquo;s okay.&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>Spiritual Rejection and backlash&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1359636902" paraeid="{f9718154-99c4-464b-bf9e-634dcca31434}{251}"><strong>Elizabeth</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="550660484" paraeid="{0dcc39cc-4b5d-45a6-9e9d-b5a69dedcd1f}{2}">Yeah. So you know, you say you&rsquo;re not a controversialist, and from reading and listening to you, I can just hear that your tone and posture is not like someone who&rsquo;s really up for a fight. But when I went was doing my deep dive research, going searching and listening to podcasts and videos. And half the entries are these very lovely, devotional, long form things on the examine, and that&rsquo;s you speaking. And then half of them are this terrible heretic works of Satan, I don&rsquo;t need to repeat it, bile really. They seem to feel very strongly about it.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="2050883875" paraeid="{0dcc39cc-4b5d-45a6-9e9d-b5a69dedcd1f}{64}"><strong>Fr James Martin&nbsp;</strong>&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="909815869" paraeid="{0dcc39cc-4b5d-45a6-9e9d-b5a69dedcd1f}{70}">Yeah they&rsquo;re really mean. They do. Yeah, it&rsquo;s really a strange thing.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1163019386" paraeid="{0dcc39cc-4b5d-45a6-9e9d-b5a69dedcd1f}{88}"><strong>Elizabeth&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="250748488" paraeid="{0dcc39cc-4b5d-45a6-9e9d-b5a69dedcd1f}{94}">How have you navigated that, personally and spiritually?&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1161050912" paraeid="{0dcc39cc-4b5d-45a6-9e9d-b5a69dedcd1f}{104}"><strong>Fr James Martin&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1716553750" paraeid="{0dcc39cc-4b5d-45a6-9e9d-b5a69dedcd1f}{112}">Well, that&rsquo;s actually an easy question to answer, because I think about it all the time! I was on a retreat like seven or eight years ago, and I was praying about a passage called the rejection at Nazareth. And so for those people who aren&rsquo;t Christian, who don&rsquo;t know the Bible very well, it&rsquo;s about Jesus preaching in his hometown of Nazareth. He preaches, and initially, everybody thinks he&rsquo;s great, and then he starts to say, well, you&rsquo;re probably going to say, do miracles here like you did somewhere else, and the Prophet is not welcome in his own land. And they start to get angry at him. They get so angry at him, they chase him out of the synagogue, and they drive him to what&rsquo;s called the brow of the hill to throw him off i.e. they try to kill him, which is usually kind of downplayed when we talk about this. And I remember praying about this, in the Jesuits, we have this tradition of imagining yourself in a scene literally, just picturing yourself and trusting that what comes up is maybe what God wants you to look at. And I imagine myself in the scene, and I imagine asking Jesus, like, how could you do this? Like you know what they were going to say if you come up and you say, &ldquo;I&rsquo;m the Messiah.&rdquo; And what I heard in prayer, not orally, but what kind of came up to me, was Jesus asking me in prayer. &ldquo;Must everyone like you?&rdquo; That was a big thing. And remember, we were talking about when I was young, how that was a big thing for me, right, getting everyone to like me? And it is for everybody at that age. And I had to admit to myself, I needed to be free of that. That&rsquo;s the first thing: not everybody&rsquo;s going to like me. Second thing is: I had the support of the Pope, of the Jesuits, of my brother Jesuits, I do everything within the church, I remind myself of that. And then the third thing: I think it&rsquo;s the right thing to do, and people are going to push back. Our model for this is Jesus and a lot of people didn&rsquo;t like Jesus.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="2060611801" paraeid="{a8f34070-9156-49fd-a286-cca794421d63}{41}">And then there&rsquo;s a lot of homophobia out there, and I have to kind of ignore it. I&rsquo;m used to it now. I&rsquo;ll be honest, I don&rsquo;t talk about this too much, it&rsquo;s still very weird for me, because I go about my daily life, and maybe I give a talk at some someplace, and there&rsquo;s like 100 protesters. And I just think, you&rsquo;re upset about me!? And people think I&rsquo;m devious and deceitful and all this, I&rsquo;ve never challenged Church teaching. I&rsquo;m basically just trying to get people to listen to LGBT people, but people feel very strongly about it. When I was at the Synod last year, it&rsquo;s supposed to be a big gathering where everybody listens to each other, one delegate refused to sit next to me, and he left. He was so angry. And I was like look, dude, I didn&rsquo;t say this, but even if you think I&rsquo;m a sinner, right, you&rsquo;re supposed to sit next to me, that&rsquo;s the Gospels. The other thing we have to remember is this, most of the people who are there might be people who would disagree with me and say, &ldquo;I&rsquo;m not sure about that.&rdquo; But the people who get enraged, a lot of it&rsquo;s their own stuff. It&rsquo;s something going on inside of them about their own sexuality. And I&rsquo;ve had enough people write to me, believe it or not, saying 5 or 10 years ago, I was against you, but I&rsquo;ve just come out, etc, right? So there&rsquo;s a certain psychological makeup of the person who&rsquo;s just enraged.&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>Understanding Radicalisation and Disagreement&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1672636123" paraeid="{8ee03eb0-25a9-424a-9611-96d26e01f0e4}{22}"><strong>Elizabeth&nbsp;</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="910768840" paraeid="{8ee03eb0-25a9-424a-9611-96d26e01f0e4}{28}">And I&rsquo;m really interested in this. There&rsquo;s a sociologist who calls it &lsquo;mutual radicalization&rsquo;, the way in which disagreement and difference kicks us into fight or flight, and when someone attacks us, and we react defensively, then they attack and we sort of harden into these extreme positions. And I sort of see Jesus&rsquo; teaching in the New Testament around turning the other cheek and loving our enemies as these amazing sort of countervailing practices. But I know I&rsquo;ve had radically less than the abuse that you&rsquo;ve had, but in the instances where I&rsquo;ve experienced something similar, the reaction to me is really like screw you! Like, these are the reasons you&rsquo;re stupid and wrong!&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="561495926" paraeid="{8ee03eb0-25a9-424a-9611-96d26e01f0e4}{124}"><strong>Fr James Martin&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="373044988" paraeid="{8ee03eb0-25a9-424a-9611-96d26e01f0e4}{132}">Yeah. I mean, you&rsquo;re a human being, and I sometimes feel that interiorly. But you know, I did something really interesting over the last year. So I&rsquo;m a member of the Synod, even a lot of Catholics may be familiar with it, but it&rsquo;s a worldwide gathering of people to help the church move ahead in terms of its governance and looking at different issues. And we met last year for the first time, 350 delegates. We&rsquo;re meeting in October of this year, and it&rsquo;s to really help Pope Francis make his decisions. It&rsquo;s very consultative. They call it the largest consultative gathering in world history, which it probably is, because it asks people from every parish in the world, there are Catholics everywhere.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="353703872" paraeid="{8ee03eb0-25a9-424a-9611-96d26e01f0e4}{192}">Anyway, when I was there, the LGBTQ issue came up. And let me tell you the stuff people said:&nbsp; most people were quite open and welcoming, but some people were really just&hellip; I said to someone, &ldquo;You could get arrested in the States for hate speech, for saying some of these things.&rdquo; So what I did was I really sought them out. I really tried to talk to them face to face. And then over the past year, I did a little project off and on, where I would meet with them on Zoom or email or just in&ndash;person. And I wrote an article about it that just came out on Outreach.faith, which is our website and America Media, on that process and what I learned, and what their objections were, and also what my responses are. So it is possible. It&rsquo;s hard, though. I had an African Archbishop say to me, imagine you have to be polite to everyone you meet, but certainly at the Synod and certainly to an archbishop, it&rsquo;s a priest, &ldquo;The only reason people are gay in my country is because Americans like you come and pay them to be gay.&rdquo; So you have to just say, okay, Archbishop, let&rsquo;s talk about that. So it&rsquo;s hard, it&rsquo;s a lot of work, but we have to become good listeners and good friends before we can tackle the tough stuff.&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>The Role of Politics in Division&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1412486984" paraeid="{50ae818a-bc30-4b4a-bd59-af809a3aa06c}{69}"><strong>Elizabeth&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="719609313" paraeid="{50ae818a-bc30-4b4a-bd59-af809a3aa06c}{75}">Yeah, it&rsquo;s not just sexuality, is it? I think the Catholic Church is in a moment of increasing division, and that&rsquo;s just mirroring societies across the world. You know, the Church of England is similarly at each other&rsquo;s throats about sexuality. What is your hunch about what is driving some of these dynamics that are pushing us apart?&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="406286846" paraeid="{50ae818a-bc30-4b4a-bd59-af809a3aa06c}{103}"><strong>Fr James Martin</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="310227462" paraeid="{50ae818a-bc30-4b4a-bd59-af809a3aa06c}{109}">Well, one thing I want to say, because I know your audience, one of the most helpful insights came from, I&rsquo;m sure you know him, Father Timothy Radcliffe, who was the former master general the Dominicans, who gave brilliant talks. They&rsquo;re collected in a book called Listening Together. And he quoted Saint John Paul II, I&rsquo;d never heard this before, and it really changed my mind about the Synod and what the goals were, &ldquo;Affective collegiality precedes effective collegiality.&rdquo; So affective collegiality, friendship, precedes any effect of collegiality or discussion. You cannot really talk about these tough things without being friends.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1692984252" paraeid="{50ae818a-bc30-4b4a-bd59-af809a3aa06c}{173}">What is driving it? I think a lot of it iss driven by politics and politicians right, who are increasingly vituperative and us versus them. I think social media has a lot to do with it; people can say whatever they want and put out all sorts of lies. I also think, I would say two things: in the United States, I think a lot of it&rsquo;s a racism. I know this sounds very specific, but I think when Barack Obama was elected, people were very upset, and a lot of racists thought, this can&rsquo;t be happening. The influx of migrants in all different countries, which is a legitimate challenge. I worked with refugees in East Africa, so it&rsquo;s a challenge to host, you know, hundreds of thousands of people, but demonizing them is not the way to go. This is not Christian. And I think really certain political actors. I&rsquo;m trying to be careful not to mention names have made it okay to hate people again. And I think it&rsquo;s really sad, and do you remember, we were talking about discerning spirits earlier in the conversation? That is not coming from God. Anything that is&nbsp; demonizing other people, making them into animals, literally calling them animals, that is not coming from God and that&rsquo;s not Christian. So I think it&rsquo;s okay to hate people again publicly and we have to work against that.&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>Finding the Balance in Discourse&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="660861810" paraeid="{fb34e4ce-4dc2-4d75-8b1b-a5b97f728083}{110}"><strong>Elizabeth</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1435432469" paraeid="{fb34e4ce-4dc2-4d75-8b1b-a5b97f728083}{116}">Where&rsquo;s the line? I think about this a lot, because I&rsquo;m sort of listening across difference, you know, radical empathy. Honestly, I think a lot of this is just personality, like so much of my theology and philosophy, maps onto my temperament, and I think that&rsquo;s true of most people, rather than being the outcome of a rigorous intellectual exercise. But I am aware that, well, partly I just annoy people because I&rsquo;m seen as a wishy&ndash;washy fence sitter, but how do we hold together that posture towards others, and we would share a kind of Christian commitment to people being made in the image of God, and a commitment to wanting to protect their dignity and to name their value and their beauty and their vulnerability actually, and then holding lines on things that need lines?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="172275752" paraeid="{fb34e4ce-4dc2-4d75-8b1b-a5b97f728083}{178}"><strong>Fr James Martin</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1224719384" paraeid="{fb34e4ce-4dc2-4d75-8b1b-a5b97f728083}{186}">That&rsquo;s a very good question, I was just thinking about that yesterday. We were having a discussion here at American Media. You know, you don&rsquo;t want to demonize people who vote for one side or the other, but you also want to call out things that are actually wrong, right? So demonizing migrants and refugees, calling them animals. In the United States, saying that you&rsquo;re going to basically become a dictator. You know, there are some lines that you should not cross. I think part of it is not demonizing the person that&rsquo;s what I try to do. Anytime you say &ldquo;He is like this&rdquo;, or, &ldquo;She is like this&rdquo;, or, &ldquo;You are like that&rdquo;. For example, anyone who votes for this person you know anyone in the United States right now, if you vote for Donald Trump, you&rsquo;re racist. If you vote for Kamala Harris, you are a baby killer, those kinds of things. But it is important to call out the things that are said, and to say this is not in keeping with, certainly for me, Christian values or even moral values. I really do struggle with that, like, what is the line now? As a priest, I try to stay out of politics. That&rsquo;s very important, we&rsquo;re not allowed to endorse and I think that&rsquo;s reasonable. I don&rsquo;t want to split my congregation. But by the same token, we have to say, look, there are certain Christian values: love, forgiveness, charity, don&rsquo;t that&rsquo;s, that sounds pretty wishy washy, but also welcoming the stranger. Sorry you don&rsquo;t like it, take it up with Jesus, right? Helping the poor, helping the sick, visiting the prisoners. One of the lines I like, I think it&rsquo;s Matthew 5, &ldquo;If you call anyone a fool, you will be liable to the fires of hell.&rdquo; Jesus is saying, if you call people names, you&rsquo;re going to go to hell. It&rsquo;s pretty blunt, and people just pass that by. So, you know, for me, it&rsquo;s, it&rsquo;s the gospel, and if the gospel has political implications, so be it. But I don&rsquo;t set out to be political.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>Exploring the Themes of &lsquo;Come Forth&rsquo;&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="2108357289" paraeid="{77c80318-d17b-48c1-8cc7-7a0e99daf927}{187}"><strong>Elizabeth&nbsp;</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="21280012" paraeid="{77c80318-d17b-48c1-8cc7-7a0e99daf927}{193}">I&rsquo;d love to hear about Come Forth. What is the thesis of your newest book?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="141798119" paraeid="{77c80318-d17b-48c1-8cc7-7a0e99daf927}{211}"><strong>Fr James Martin</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="693792079" paraeid="{77c80318-d17b-48c1-8cc7-7a0e99daf927}{219}">I&rsquo;d love to talk about Come Forth. Here&rsquo;s the beautiful cover of Come Forth, also available in the UK. So it&rsquo;s a deep dive into the story of the raising of Lazarus, which is in John&rsquo;s Gospel for those people that don&rsquo;t know. Two sisters, Martha and Mary, two very outspoken, wonderful sisters in the Gospel, send word to Jesus that their brother, Lazarus, is ill. Interestingly, they call him, &ldquo;He who you love, is ill&rdquo;, which is very beautiful. Jesus waits, he comes, they take him to the tomb. And there&rsquo;s a stone there. He says, &ldquo;Take away the stone.&rdquo; He calls out, &ldquo;Lazarus come forth!&rdquo; And the dead man comes out. It&rsquo;s traditionally called Jesus&rsquo;s greatest miracle. So&nbsp; the thesis of the book is a combination of spirituality. So what does it mean? What does that story mean for our everyday lives? Biblical exegesis, like looking at the text and what does it say? A little bit of a cultural history of Lazarus through the years or the centuries, and then a travelog, I go to the place where it happened. But it&rsquo;s basically, what are we called to leave behind in our tombs and, in a sense, let die? What are the things that keep us from hearing God&rsquo;s voice? Who is calling to us every day, come forth, you know, into new life? So what do we need to let go of? What do we need to let die? Resentments, grudges, disappointments, old ways of being, anger, negativity in the sort of metaphorical tomb, and hear God&rsquo;s voice calling us to new life. So that&rsquo;s the thesis.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="2102419290" paraeid="{d73c322a-b0d7-463e-831b-8e1c01d52b16}{144}"><strong>Elizabeth&nbsp;</strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="354458771" paraeid="{d73c322a-b0d7-463e-831b-8e1c01d52b16}{150}">Obviously, one of the most famous bits is that the, you know, the shortest verse, &ldquo;Jesus wept.&rdquo;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1922582554" paraeid="{d73c322a-b0d7-463e-831b-8e1c01d52b16}{168}"><strong>Fr James Martin&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong>&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1962710412" paraeid="{d73c322a-b0d7-463e-831b-8e1c01d52b16}{176}">You know that&rsquo;s actually I have a whole chapter on that &ldquo;Jesus wept.&rdquo; And one of the interesting things, which might blow your mind a little bit, it blew my mind, is so the New Testament is written in Greek, when you go back to the Greek, the Greek words that are used around that passage, &ldquo;Jesus wept&rdquo;, actually are more words that are used about anger. So he&rsquo;s clearly sad about this friend&rsquo;s death, but there&rsquo;s a bit of anger and frustration. And the word that is used is the word that&rsquo;s used for a horse snorting. And he was deeply perturbed and moved in spirit, and he wept. So I go over through the chapter, why is he angry? Is he angry at people&rsquo;s disbelief? Is he angry at the fact of death? Is he angry because he knows this is going to lead to his death? Because, interestingly, in John&rsquo;s gospel, and this, to me, makes more sense than the Synoptic Gospels, the reason he gets this great triumphant entry on Palm Sunday was because he&rsquo;s just raised somewhere from the dead, and the reason that people want to kill him is this. So there&rsquo;s a death life, death life pattern. Lazarus&rsquo; death leads to his life, leads to Jesus&rsquo;s death, leads to new life. And so that passage, I have a whole chapter on it, because it&rsquo;s so it&rsquo;s very shocking to people.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1840066450" paraeid="{65b0eb69-9cb3-4897-9cbb-3f7a75aed9dc}{29}">Now we don&rsquo;t know this is, this is also being sort of translated from the Aramaic, and we don&rsquo;t know exactly, but it&rsquo;s good to go back to the Greek and try to puzzle out some of these things.&nbsp; And there&rsquo;s a challenge there but the key is, he&rsquo;s human, he shows emotions. And we&rsquo;re uncomfortable with that. We&rsquo;re very uncomfortable with a human Jesus. He weeps, he learns, you say that, and people get very upset, right? There&rsquo;s some things in the gospels he seems not to know. This is just to sort of tease people&rsquo;s minds. The theological conundrum is this, we believe, I believe that Jesus is fully human and fully divine. It&rsquo;s the great mystery. Jesus is the mystery. And anyone who says they they have Jesus down pat, they don&rsquo;t, because he&rsquo;s always bigger than our conceptions. We can&rsquo;t get our minds around that.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>Jesuit Wisdom on Understanding Others&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1764913322" paraeid="{65b0eb69-9cb3-4897-9cbb-3f7a75aed9dc}{179}"><strong>Elizabeth&nbsp; &nbsp; </strong>&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1475383914" paraeid="{65b0eb69-9cb3-4897-9cbb-3f7a75aed9dc}{185}">What have you learned about how to be people who can navigate divides and deal with difference without dehumanizing people who disagree with us?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="607047979" paraeid="{65b0eb69-9cb3-4897-9cbb-3f7a75aed9dc}{197}"><strong>Fr James Martin&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1398978053" paraeid="{65b0eb69-9cb3-4897-9cbb-3f7a75aed9dc}{205}">Well, there&rsquo;s some Jesuit wisdom to be brought to bear. At the very beginning of what&rsquo;s called The Spiritual Exercises Saint Ignatius&rsquo; great spiritual text, the kind of mapping out of a four&ndash;week retreat. He has something called the presupposition, supposed to undergird everything. And you would think the presupposition is, God&rsquo;s in charge, and we should always pray to Mary, or we should do XYZ. The presupposition for The Spiritual Exercises is, always give people the benefit of the doubt about what they&rsquo;re saying. That&rsquo;s the presupposition, always try to put a positive spin on things. And if you don&rsquo;t understand it, ask. So that&rsquo;s really powerful for me. That&rsquo;s the first thing as a Jesuit, always try to give people the benefit of the doubt. And then the second thing is, as I learned this year: be comfortable listening to people that you disagree with, and try to really understand where they&rsquo;re coming from, because they&rsquo;re human beings. But by the same token, have a sense of where your lines are. You know, someone says something crazy like &lsquo;I am fearful of losing my job with migrants coming in&rsquo;, or &ldquo;I&rsquo;m fearful that the government&rsquo;s resources will be diverted to migrants because my family is so poor.&rdquo; I understand, that&rsquo;s a real fear. Let&rsquo;s talk about that. Let&rsquo;s talk about what migrants actually bring to the country and how they actually help the economy. And let&rsquo;s go back and forth. If he says, &ldquo;I think all migrants should be killed&rdquo;, I draw the line.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1398978053" paraeid="{65b0eb69-9cb3-4897-9cbb-3f7a75aed9dc}{205}">So there are lines that I think we need to kind of be clear about, but we also have to listen to where people are coming from. It&rsquo;s challenging, Jesus does this. He listens to people, of course it&rsquo;s easier when you&rsquo;re the Son of God and you can raise people from the dead! But that&rsquo;s our task, and we do it imperfectly, but we have to do it, because not to do it at all would be, I think, the end of civilization.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="243856740" paraeid="{40c1f689-6aae-4ac5-b367-261ddffe1e07}{184}"><strong>Elizabeth&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong>&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1975159220" paraeid="{40c1f689-6aae-4ac5-b367-261ddffe1e07}{190}">Yes. Father James Martin, on that note, thank you so much for speaking to me for The Sacred.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="1191609371" paraeid="{40c1f689-6aae-4ac5-b367-261ddffe1e07}{202}"><strong>Fr James Martin&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw124083266="" bcx8"="" paraid="207359283" paraeid="{40c1f689-6aae-4ac5-b367-261ddffe1e07}{210}">My pleasure. Thanks for having me on.&nbsp;</p> <hr><p><strong>Interested in this? Share it on social media.&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/E9E17CAB71AC7464"><strong>Join our monthly e&ndash;newsletter</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/about/support-us"><strong>Supporter Programme</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to find out how you can help our work.</strong>&nbsp;</p> ]]>
</description>
<author>hello@theosthinktank.co.uk (Elizabeth Oldfield)</author>
<guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/23/father-james-martin-on-chastity-controversy-building-bridges-with-lgbtq-catholics</guid>
</item>
<item>
<title>Books and the Future of Civilisation live from How The Light Gets In</title>
<link>https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/22/books-and-the-future-of-civilisation-live-from-how-the-light-gets-in</link>
<pubDate>Tue, 22 Oct 2024 05:00:00 +0100</pubDate>
<description>
<![CDATA[ <figure><img src="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/assets/generated/articles/page/1d9f1d897c912923a94e011a4e4e7ec0.jpg" alt="Books and the Future of Civilisation live from How The Light Gets In" width="600" /></figure><p><em>Nick Spencer is joined by Johanna Thomas&ndash;Corr, David Shariatmadari and Juliet Mabey live at How The Light Gets In Festival. 22/10/2024</em></p><p><iframe src="https://readingourtimes.podigee.io/68-new-episode/embed?context=external&amp;theme=default" style="border: 0" frameborder="0" height="100" width="100%"></iframe></p> <p>We are emerging from the so&ndash;called &ldquo;Gutenberg Parenthesis&rdquo;, the 500 years in which the printed word dominated society, and embracing a new age of screens, images, and tweets. Or so it is claimed. Reading remains popular, however, and the printed book has rallied of late.<br /><br />What&rsquo;s going on? Might the dominance of the book, indeed of the written word, be coming to an end? Or is it the only medium capable of handling the complexities of human reason and imagination? And how much does any of this matter?<br /><br />In a live recording at the How the Light Gets in festival in London, Nick Spencer discusses the future of books and reading with Times literary critic Johanna Thomas&ndash;Corr, Guardian literary editor David Shariatmadari and editorial director of Oneworld Publications Juliet Mabey.</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <hr><p><strong>Interested in this? Share it on social media.&nbsp;</strong></p> <p><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/E9E17CAB71AC7464"><strong>Join our monthly e&ndash;newsletter</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/about/support-us"><strong>Supporter Programme</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to find out how you can help our work.</strong></p> <strong>&nbsp;to find out how you can help our work.</strong> ]]>
</description>
<author>nick.spencer@theosthinktank.co.uk (Nick Spencer)</author>
<guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/22/books-and-the-future-of-civilisation-live-from-how-the-light-gets-in</guid>
</item>
<item>
<title>Converting to Islam and the Pursuit of Meaning with Dr Timothy Winter (Abdal Hakim Murad)</title>
<link>https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/16/converting-to-islam-and-the-pursuit-of-meaning-with-dr-timothy-winter-abdal-hakim-murad</link>
<pubDate>Wed, 16 Oct 2024 09:38:00 +0100</pubDate>
<description>
<![CDATA[ <figure><img src="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/assets/generated/articles/page/24aebf5295a5286b97a670b7f0f9116e.jpg" alt="Converting to Islam and the Pursuit of Meaning with Dr Timothy Winter (Abdal Hakim Murad)" width="600" /></figure><p><em>Elizabeth Oldfield speaks with Islamic Scholar Dr Timothy Winter. 16/10/2024</em></p><p><iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/XZoyFuhCVFU?si=Q9IR83BScR1geGcl" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen=""></iframe></p> <p><strong>What is sacred to you? Timothy Winter answers&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="4195812" paraeid="{88261a6e-71f7-4506-baa4-2f12575b4645}{187}">Elizabeth&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="431006012" paraeid="{88261a6e-71f7-4506-baa4-2f12575b4645}{193}">Hello, and welcome to The Sacred. My name is Elizabeth Oldfield, and this is a podcast about the deep values of people from a wide range of political, metaphysical and professional perspectives. My guest today is Dr Tim winter, who is also known as Sheik Abdal Hakim Murad, and he is an Islamic theologian. Tim, I am going to kick off by asking you, what is sacred to you?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="400434459" paraeid="{88261a6e-71f7-4506-baa4-2f12575b4645}{227}">Timothy Winter&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1566814106" paraeid="{88261a6e-71f7-4506-baa4-2f12575b4645}{235}">I suppose there is the objective sacred, which is what human beings since the Upper Paleolithic have experienced as something mysteriously inhering, in the beauty of nature, of relationships the human face, just the enigma of being, which probably all human beings, just by virtue of being human, have experienced probably quite frequently in their lives, even if they don&rsquo;t have the right vocabulary to explore it. And the subjective sacred, which is how we, from our culturally specific, class&ndash;based, gender&ndash;based, education&ndash;based mental cultural formation actually receive and interpret that. So my own experience of the sacred has been, I suppose, an attempt to interpret that universal and probably most important of human sensations that, behind the surface of the world, there is something that gives sense of meaning and direction to the world. For me, that has always been most easily interpreted in the language of traditional Semitic Monotheism, that the sacred principle, the light, the goodness, the beauty, the experience, and truth behind things is an enigma that is least bafflingly articulated in the limited net of human language, in terms of there being a kind of analogy to a person who, rather than what, is the origin and the end and the purpose of everything. That&rsquo;s the most that my limited Western mind can encompass, I think. I have enormous respect for other traditions which are less personalists, some of the Buddhist traditions, for instance, some of the Indic Traditions, Chinese traditions. But I&rsquo;m very much from the far west of the old world, and I can only see the sacred as being interpreted in terms of there being personal life as the author and the ground of being.&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>What is Semitic Monotheism?&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="80458134" paraeid="{32020983-3836-4b06-ad0a-4c4d61b0bf30}{98}">Elizabeth&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="318565922" paraeid="{32020983-3836-4b06-ad0a-4c4d61b0bf30}{104}">You use this phrase &lsquo;Semitic Monotheism&rsquo;. Could you unpack that a little bit for me?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1260995821" paraeid="{32020983-3836-4b06-ad0a-4c4d61b0bf30}{126}">Timothy Winter&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1573002699" paraeid="{32020983-3836-4b06-ad0a-4c4d61b0bf30}{134}">Well, monotheism as historically expressed through the Hebrew prophets and articulated in terms of the Abrahamic idea of a personal God. A God that in some mysterious, allegorical way, weaves stories that enable us to pick up on the fragments of light and meaning that we see in our lives, and to see a greater purpose for stories, which are often moral. So I suppose by Semitic Monotheism, I mean Abrahamic religion, the belief in a single, personal, creator God who creates in time, and who resurrects, and to whom there will be a final reckoning. So unlike, say, the dharmic religions of the subcontinent, where history is more cyclical than linear and the Divine is mediated in more complex ways.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="574799914" paraeid="{32020983-3836-4b06-ad0a-4c4d61b0bf30}{186}">Elizabeth&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="832442394" paraeid="{32020983-3836-4b06-ad0a-4c4d61b0bf30}{192}">Yes, I really like that phrase you used, &ldquo;Who not what&rdquo;, as a way of gesturing towards that personalist understanding of God.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1352904932" paraeid="{32020983-3836-4b06-ad0a-4c4d61b0bf30}{218}">Timothy Winter&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1815864950" paraeid="{32020983-3836-4b06-ad0a-4c4d61b0bf30}{226}">With all the paradoxes that that generates, of course!&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>Life at Westminster College&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="2117892474" paraeid="{32020983-3836-4b06-ad0a-4c4d61b0bf30}{250}">Elizabeth&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="844575598" paraeid="{ab299da6-f9fc-4bf6-b1be-bfdfcf0ba6b2}{1}">Yes! I can hear your care, and I love that. When I&rsquo;m sort of trying to write or speak about this hugely semiotically dense three letters &lsquo;God&rsquo;, I have sometimes put it in square brackets to acknowledge that we need not to fling it around as if everyone knows what we&rsquo;re talking about, or as if it is uncomplicated as a concept. Okay, we&rsquo;re going to try and locate you in your story and how you came to have that instinctive underlying logic in your life. So, I&rsquo;d love to hear about your childhood. Could you just paint me a picture of young Tim, maybe at age eight or nine? What was your world and what were you like?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1459491189" paraeid="{ab299da6-f9fc-4bf6-b1be-bfdfcf0ba6b2}{87}">Timothy Winter&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="709292889" paraeid="{ab299da6-f9fc-4bf6-b1be-bfdfcf0ba6b2}{95}">Well, no adventures, really! Middle class, mediocre, middle of the road, middle England. Brought up in a leafy North London suburb, went to private schools. I was at a school called Westminster, which, at the time, was undergoing one of its sort of summits of cultural production. Every evening, some bunch of earnest, slightly nerdy, pupils were putting on some Samuel Beckett play, and everybody was terribly taxed by the latest articles at the Times Literary Supplement. And in some ways, it was artificial, but in other ways, it did actually confirm our sense that the life of the mind was interesting, that education was not just about pointing one like a gun at the stockbroker belt from an early age, whatever parents might have intended. But it was an attempt to explore, albeit it was a very secular school, the deep mystery of human consciousness and the fact that we are capable, despite our humble origins, of quite enormous profundity. The fact that out of the total chaos of the Big Bang, you can have processes that lead to the immense subtlety of Shakespeare, for instance, although we tended to regard that as a rather uncool way of arguing, is itself a kind of pointer towards the existence of guiding meaning laden principles in the universe that, despite the tendency of matter to be entropic and to wind down into greater chaos and greater disorder, nonetheless produces structures which enable greater forms of order to develop, leading ultimately (it was a humanistic interpretation, but quite a convincing one) to the deep miracle of human consciousness, human creativity, the perception of the beauty, the perception that in morality, there is something deep and eternal that touches us, that I think was probably quite a good preparation for many of us. And I&rsquo;ve stayed in touch with some of my school friends since then.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="2087899588" paraeid="{ab299da6-f9fc-4bf6-b1be-bfdfcf0ba6b2}{215}">Elizabeth&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="470999430" paraeid="{ab299da6-f9fc-4bf6-b1be-bfdfcf0ba6b2}{221}">My goodness! You&rsquo;re reminding me of an interview I did with Ian McGilchrist, who spoke about when he went to Winchester College, as similarly very formative on his worldview, were they the rivals?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="614090539" paraeid="{ab299da6-f9fc-4bf6-b1be-bfdfcf0ba6b2}{249}">Timothy Winter&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="425982362" paraeid="{e125789b-5a9b-4931-843d-a3dfcb2b9fbc}{2}">Terrible place! Well in cricket there was an ongoing issue.&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>The influence Congregationalism and 1970s Modernism&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1870114810" paraeid="{e125789b-5a9b-4931-843d-a3dfcb2b9fbc}{38}">Elizabeth&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1095006114" paraeid="{e125789b-5a9b-4931-843d-a3dfcb2b9fbc}{44}">I see, it&rsquo;s the Sharks and the Jets transposed to public schools! But it, I think, for me and for a lot of listeners, that was not our experience of school. So, it&rsquo;s very helpful to hear how early on those questions were live for you, were they live at home? Tell me about your parents, if you don&rsquo;t mind, what kind of world were they forming?&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1271631217" paraeid="{e125789b-5a9b-4931-843d-a3dfcb2b9fbc}{132}">Timothy Winter&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="658970280" paraeid="{e125789b-5a9b-4931-843d-a3dfcb2b9fbc}{140}">My father was regarded as one of the leading exponents of architectural modernism in the UK. So he got his gong from the Queen and was president of the Royal Institute of British Architects for a while, and a member of the Royal Fine Arts Commission. So I was brought up with a kind of art and architecture influence. I remember at the age of about six, being taken to my first David Hockney exhibition, I think it was at the Whitehall Gallery, and looking with some legitimate sort of six&ndash;year&ndash;old perplexity at some of Hockney&rsquo;s images. But we were certainly immersed in that world of modernism, the excitement of the 1960s and 1970s, that the old ways were being kicked away, the dusty, Gothic kind of repetitiveness of the old England. And we&rsquo;re going to move into a rather more, I suppose, Californian space, where the sky was the limit, entrepreneurship, new forms, new excitement. And I was brought up in what is sometimes regarded as London&rsquo;s leading showcase of modernist domestic architecture, which is a house in the middle of Highgate Cemetery. Which is still kind of a point of pilgrimage for a lot of modernists and is a listed building and so forth.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1606270823" paraeid="{e125789b-5a9b-4931-843d-a3dfcb2b9fbc}{252}">Elizabeth&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="2146102568" paraeid="{64c95e6c-120b-4eff-9111-bbf74664db93}{3}">Wow, so your dad designed it?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1782463589" paraeid="{64c95e6c-120b-4eff-9111-bbf74664db93}{13}">Timothy Winter&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="2000292427" paraeid="{64c95e6c-120b-4eff-9111-bbf74664db93}{19}">He designed it, yeah. So I was brought up in the middle, right to the cutting edge of modernity with my father, who, at the time was a kind of convinced follower of Bertrand Russell and thought that religion was pretty, nice at Christmas, but one really needed to move on into the world of steel and glass and Le Corbusier and Mies van der Rohe. So at our dinner table, we&rsquo;d quite often have leading modernist architects. Norman Foster was a kind of rival back in the 1970s, they competed against each other in competitions. Various other leading names in the modernist movement would float across my skeptical teenage radar. So that had a kind of impact in that I was at the sharp end of modernity looking at the steel and glass alternative to the gothic traditions of merry England.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1099324360" paraeid="{64c95e6c-120b-4eff-9111-bbf74664db93}{85}">Elizabeth&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1603727297" paraeid="{64c95e6c-120b-4eff-9111-bbf74664db93}{91}">And am I right in thinking you had some quite committed ministers in the generation above you? Was that your dad&rsquo;s parents who were in ministry?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1457135441" paraeid="{64c95e6c-120b-4eff-9111-bbf74664db93}{121}">Timothy Winter&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="2026127032" paraeid="{64c95e6c-120b-4eff-9111-bbf74664db93}{129}">Well, the deeper family history was a little street in Norwich, and I did the research once to see exactly whether there had been anybody in my family tree who&rsquo;d ever done anything of any interest whatsoever; won a medal, perhaps, or built a bridge, and I found silence. Yeah so, we lived for about 200 years on King Street in Norwich. We had a draper&rsquo;s shop, and we were a prosperous middle&ndash;class family, I suppose. And we lived more or less opposite what is now known and celebrated as the shrine of Mother Julian of Norwich. But of course, as devout Congregationalist, Calvinist chapel folk, we never darkened its doors. It was regarded as a kind of shocking relic of popery, and it was just as well that it was falling to pieces; who would possibly go there for that idolatrous, rank popery? So that&rsquo;s a kind of but the chapel Congregationalist world was really the center of everybody&rsquo;s life, until suddenly, my grandfather&rsquo;s generation, when everybody would take the pledge.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="149669809" paraeid="{64c95e6c-120b-4eff-9111-bbf74664db93}{241}">Elizabeth&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1433010836" paraeid="{64c95e6c-120b-4eff-9111-bbf74664db93}{247}">What was the pledge?&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1762126688" paraeid="{7f6a0dd1-fa99-4b9c-ad5f-b4d0a5353dbe}{4}">Timothy Winter&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="2007653028" paraeid="{7f6a0dd1-fa99-4b9c-ad5f-b4d0a5353dbe}{10}">The pledge was to lay off the demon drink forever and you would go up to put your hand on the Bible and swear off drink forever more. And interestingly, that same structure, or the Sunday School attached to it, and I have dim recollections as a rather grumpy child having to go to Sunday school, it&rsquo;s actually become a mosque. So, I now tell my family now in Norwich, &ldquo;I&rsquo;m the only one who&rsquo;s keeping up the family tradition! I still go to that place, and I still don&rsquo;t drink. Don&rsquo;t know about you guys.&rdquo; And they give me a look. But it&rsquo;s always been important to me to recognize that the monotheisms are closely intertwined and similar, and that taking the step into something in Islam is not visiting Mars or some remote elsewhere. It&rsquo;s a different variation on the same principles of Semitic Monotheism. So yes, that that&rsquo;s that sanctuary of my family, going back, I suppose at least 200 years is now, is now a very busy mosque, lots of converts and a very active place. There&rsquo;s an irony.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1174228550" paraeid="{7f6a0dd1-fa99-4b9c-ad5f-b4d0a5353dbe}{138}">Elizabeth&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1543857300" paraeid="{7f6a0dd1-fa99-4b9c-ad5f-b4d0a5353dbe}{144}">And do you think your dad was reacting against that world in his kind of Bertrand Russell, 1960s modernist world?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="522495680" paraeid="{7f6a0dd1-fa99-4b9c-ad5f-b4d0a5353dbe}{160}">Timothy Winter&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1640580221" paraeid="{7f6a0dd1-fa99-4b9c-ad5f-b4d0a5353dbe}{168}">Yeah I think he was. I think that if you were brought up in the 40s and 50s in an English provincial town, everything must have seemed extremely mediocre, and dull, and monochrome. This was before multiculturalism, before the sexual revolution, before the Beatles. And if you had any kind of intelligence, and I&rsquo;ve inherited his library, and he was reading very extensively and interested in art and architecture in his early teens, it must have seemed extremely disappointing and a waste of one&rsquo;s life, the sort of Edwardian preoccupations with virtue signaling within the Old English class system, where you went to take your tea, which theaters you went to and didn&rsquo;t go to, where you sat in chapel. All of that was, I think, extremely oppressive to a lot of people, which accounts for the extraordinary explosion that happened in the 1960s that was an energetic, chaotic, in many ways destructive reaction against something that by that time, had become almost unbearable to a generation that had wireless and TV and movies and were seeing a wider world. So I think that he formed part of that. And his reaction was to look to where he thought the life and the vigor and the sincerity was in the Western world, which was in the United States. He loved America, he did his Masters at Yale. Then he drove across the continent in a converted funeral wagon or something, I guess petrol was cheap in those days, he drove all the way to California. He worked for a leading architectural firm there called Skidmore, built his first skyscraper, and he experiences America as a land of possibility, of openness, of friendliness and of a lack of the kind of forensic class differentials which were the great preoccupation of England at that time.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>The role of religion in Timothy Winter&rsquo;s early life&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1407901176" paraeid="{11dd0c5d-b443-4213-a69e-7e4ff577e4ed}{11}">Elizabeth&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="625812360" paraeid="{11dd0c5d-b443-4213-a69e-7e4ff577e4ed}{17}">So given that background, it would have been very easy for you to just default to atheism. But it sounds like, at Westminster School, surrounded by the cathedral and this liturgy, religion was always something you were interested in in some form. Is that fair to say?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="2105278322" paraeid="{11dd0c5d-b443-4213-a69e-7e4ff577e4ed}{31}">Timothy Winter&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="2100091610" paraeid="{11dd0c5d-b443-4213-a69e-7e4ff577e4ed}{39}">I think that there was something so non&ndash;conformist about Westminster School in the 70s, encouraged by its Maverick headmaster, John Ray, who regarded being different as being part of the individualistic possibilities of the Enlightenment. And he would actively encourage eccentric behavior, as long as it didn&rsquo;t involve drugs or alcohol. He kind of actively promoted this world of intellectual exploration that the conventional sort of disregard for the idea of religion was perhaps slightly less common, and there were a few earnest Christians at the school. In a sense, it was uncool to consider religion to be uncool, unlike many school kids. And every morning we prayed at Westminster Abbey and experienced the beauty of the building and the liturgy. And even though the headmaster was just as likely to read a rather disturbing Kafka short story as he was to read something from St Paul, it was that kind of place. And of course, girls arrived when I was there, which was another kind of strain on the traditional sort of public school ethos. But we had a chaplain, William Booth, who then went on to become the Queen&rsquo;s chaplain for a while, a kind of mild mannered Ulsterman, who put up with our endless jeering and gave us an example of somebody who is living a kind of humble Christian life that we noticed, even though not many kids went up for confirmation or went to compline and the Abbey, it was a very secular place. But he did encourage us to think not just about, whether there is there a God, but also you know about the historical, doctrinal claims of Christianity, which he took seriously. So he exposed us to the doctrine of the Trinity, to the vicarious atonement, to the dual nature of Christ, the history of the Church councils. This was in a rather vague &lsquo;God slot&rsquo; which did exist back then called Divinity, which didn&rsquo;t lead to a proper O&ndash;Level or anything, so it was a kind of chance to muck around. But given the nature of the school, we mucked around in ways that satisfied a certain intellectual curiosity. But it has to be said that very few of the kids actually bought his kind of presentation of traditional church Christianity, the Trinity didn&rsquo;t seem to make sense to us. Three into one don&rsquo;t go, that kind of argument seemed to us conclusive. And towards the end of the decade, when theology still made it to the front pages in the English press, there was a scandal ever a book called The Myth of God Incarnate, which was edited by radical theologians like John Hick, which claimed that the historical Jesus would not have voted the right way at the church councils, that he was practicing Judaism. He wouldn&rsquo;t have accepted being a person of a trinity. He didn&rsquo;t believe in the dual nature or original sin, or any of those doctrines that emerged in the early Christian centuries. So, for me, that segued into a certain skepticism that had come out of those rather ill&ndash;fated and combative Divinity classes that had punctuated my teenage years.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="856481708" paraeid="{11dd0c5d-b443-4213-a69e-7e4ff577e4ed}{241}">Elizabeth&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="447707060" paraeid="{11dd0c5d-b443-4213-a69e-7e4ff577e4ed}{247}">So you became a Unitarian for a while, I gathered through sort of part of that journey, what was drawing you there?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="738340607" paraeid="{bdb005e2-e44e-41e8-9b3d-b6cd0d55ebf3}{8}">Timothy Winter&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="593493111" paraeid="{bdb005e2-e44e-41e8-9b3d-b6cd0d55ebf3}{16}">Well, I had always retained the conviction through various maverick personal experiences that the least absurd explanation of the great mystery, the enigma of being, is that there is a Divine principle behind it. I never lost sight of that, although I was tested on a few occasions, usually in moments of tragedy. But the idea of a Triune God, the idea of the church is currently constituted the kind of bells and smells of high church ritual, or even some of the things that we did in Westminster Abbey, as faithfully reflecting the lifestyle, the beliefs, the purposes of that amazing Jesus of Nazareth, whose teachings shine through as something that can&rsquo;t be interpreted just as a kind of interesting product of first century Palestinian Jewish Hasidic piety, but somehow transcend time and space and do speak to us as the sacred of universals, that there was a disconnect between the Christ of faith and the Jesus of history. And I found reading things like John Hicks&rsquo; stuff, Dennis Nineham, Don Cupitt, people like that, theologians who were active at the time that said actually the historical Jesus is more attractive and speaks to us more than the kind of glorified Pantocrator Christ raised in heaven, judging the quick and the dead. So it seemed to me like to be like a choice between the Jesus of history and the Christ of faith. And that didn&rsquo;t sort of trigger some kind of total meltdown for me, but an option for the Jesus of history, the amazing wandering rabbi of first century Galilee, with his very radical but deep and intuitively moving teachings. The parables, the ethos of early first primitive Christianity, as opposed to the kind of golden, Byzantine splendor and Hellenized doctrines that came after several centuries. So that was, if you like, my first semi&ndash;conscious religious decision that I wanted to learn more about the Jewish Jesus.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="490607629" paraeid="{bdb005e2-e44e-41e8-9b3d-b6cd0d55ebf3}{118}">Elizabeth&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="986987028" paraeid="{bdb005e2-e44e-41e8-9b3d-b6cd0d55ebf3}{124}">Yeah and I have heard you speak about going up to university as a Unitarian, and ending up studying Arabic because you wanted to make a lot of money in the Gulf. Westminster clearly hadn&rsquo;t left you solely with, you know, high intellectual aspirations, there were other aspirations going on! The route into studying Arabic and learning about Islam was more accidental than deliberate, by the sound of it.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="300789239" paraeid="{bdb005e2-e44e-41e8-9b3d-b6cd0d55ebf3}{164}">Timothy Winter&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1696165825" paraeid="{bdb005e2-e44e-41e8-9b3d-b6cd0d55ebf3}{172}">Yeah. I mean, by that stage, all of my friends in their teenage years were listening to kind of contemporary opera and Harris and Birtwistle, and going to the Tate Gallery every week. They had emerged from the chrysalis, and they were working in the city or getting proper jobs and actually joining the establishment. I suppose my trajectory at that time was, in Islam we emphasize very strongly the value of intention. Intention matters more than what you actually do, and probably my intentions have never been particularly impeccable. So my options, I took the entrance exam to Cambridge in economics, and then I decided to switch to do Arabic, which for various extraneous reasons I&rsquo;d taken an interest in in my mid&ndash;teens. So looking at the rather intense hothouse economics then being then doled out and the economics faculty in Cambridge, I thought, my God, this is three years of statistics and economic projections that probably will never turn out to be true but I&rsquo;ll get a job with Citibank at the end of it. So I kind of chickened out and went back into the hard humanities and chose the Arabic studies tripos with a small number of almost necessarily like&ndash;minded, unusual students, and didn&rsquo;t regret it. Although Arabic is difficult, it wasn&rsquo;t necessarily an easy option.&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>Sexuality in the Quran&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1438560758" paraeid="{eac3f91c-39c7-4765-9f7b-1f0ed7a563ac}{57}">Elizabeth&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1754973528" paraeid="{eac3f91c-39c7-4765-9f7b-1f0ed7a563ac}{63}">Yes, and another part of your journey that I&rsquo;d love to hear about, although obviously talking about it is reasonably personal, was a sense of the way Christianity relates to sexuality versus how Islam does. Would you mind saying a little bit about that, that moment in your life?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1606764019" paraeid="{eac3f91c-39c7-4765-9f7b-1f0ed7a563ac}{83}">Timothy Winter&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1688859071" paraeid="{eac3f91c-39c7-4765-9f7b-1f0ed7a563ac}{91}">I suppose this also is something which is important to people who come out of the 1960s and the 1970s when the traditional kind of dusty puritanism that was normal in England really throughout the 1950s, the sense of shame and the problematizing of something which is the most elemental aspect of our biological humanity, was the main thing that people were rebelling out about in the 1960s. By the 1970s it had become clear that there needed to be some kind of boundaries, regulation, otherwise people were going to get hurt, especially women. A lot of news coming out about cults in California, free love communes and so forth, and usually it was the women who are on the receiving end of most of those free love experiments. But certainly, I believe that we are designed, whether by evolution or Providence or both, to be inhabitants of the Upper Paleolithic environment, in other words, to be part of the natural world we&rsquo;re physically organic beings. And on that level, the production of life, and therefore, a certain awe and reverence for the processes whereby life comes to be is normal for human beings. And the earliest of all images are images of sort of fertility goddesses or pregnant women. We&rsquo;re not quite sure what they were, because they go back to 40,000 BC. And it struck me that the type of religion, not just Christianity, that problematizes that, that emphasizes, for instance, clerical celibacy, that associates Eros with some primordial fault in creation, the idea that reproduction is a consequence of original sin, once we became mortal, we had to reproduce ourselves. Obviously, these are nowadays hotly contested topics in Christianity, but looking at the normative medieval, even very recent, little chapel Christian attitude, struck me that quite a bit of damage could be done to human beings by problematizing something which is the most fundamental drive that we have. Most religions, not just Islam, but Judaism, many schools of Hinduism and so forth, actually have a very positive sense of sacred sexuality, and the leading thinkers produced pillow books and that natural process is regarded as something sacred, rather than a consequence of the loss of the sacred. So that again, in the context of the 1970s was something that was quite significant to me, that Christianity, in many of its forms, although the Reformation had allowed priests to marry, had possibly done quite a bit of damage to human beings by trying to suffocate that which sooner or later will express itself. And perhaps some of these abuse scandals that have hit some of the churches in recent years are evidence of the fact that this is a renegade, very powerful instinct, and you need to provide a space in which it can be celebrated and sacralized, rather than treated as a sort of concession to human nature.&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>The road to Islam&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="925499473" paraeid="{eac3f91c-39c7-4765-9f7b-1f0ed7a563ac}{197}">Elizabeth&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1106726311" paraeid="{eac3f91c-39c7-4765-9f7b-1f0ed7a563ac}{203}">Yes, it was really interesting reading that, because it&rsquo;s not something I think in the public perception of Islam, and part of the reason I like to interview people is to understand where their lived experience is very different from the kind of two&ndash;dimensional picture that we paint. But the fact that part of what drew you to Islam was your perception of it, having a healthier understanding of sexuality, was very interesting to me. So there was that piece, there was the Arabic course that drew you into this world; what pushed you over the edge to not just becoming interested in Islam but committing your life to it?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="583023055" paraeid="{fdf3b70c-fe25-469f-ac8d-1448012290b3}{20}">Timothy Winter&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1231728183" paraeid="{fdf3b70c-fe25-469f-ac8d-1448012290b3}{28}">There wasn&rsquo;t a kind of road to Damascus moment, or any sort of angelic intervention. It was rather a slow process of migration from a sort of parties of Westminster Abbey to a sort of rather thin, perhaps Unitarian interpretation of Christianity, to a survey of different religious options, because this is the 1970s and people were following Rajneesh and Hare Krishna all over Central London. It was an interesting time when the rebellion against the hard edges of modernity was actually frequently expressed in religious and sacred terms, which has almost been completely lost sight of now. Extinction Rebellion is largely a secular organization as far as I can see, those tendencies have joined the secular bandwagon. Back in the 70s, it wasn&rsquo;t the case, people were genuinely interested in the sacred, in realistic or dangerous ways. So it was a slow migration, I suppose, from the Trinity, to the idea of kind of pure, Semitic Monotheism as I understood it. And then perhaps a slight experience of being underwhelmed by the Unitarian chapel in Cambridge, the fact that I seem to be about the only person there who wasn&rsquo;t yet of retirement age, possibly didn&rsquo;t help. It didn&rsquo;t look like the charismatic repository of final truth to me. And because I&rsquo;d started to learn Arabic for quite extraneous, materialistic reasons, the penny started to drop that I seemed to be drawn in the direction of something that originally I hadn&rsquo;t really had any interest in. I&rsquo;m not somebody who seeks out exotica or the mystic East. I was never on the hippie trail. I have no interest in something that dislocates me from what I already am in sort of fundamental nature. And one of the things about joining Islam, which I&rsquo;ve seen with a lot of new Muslims is that, in a strange way, it tends to situate them more strongly in their local identity. Some of the most English people I&rsquo;ve ever met have been converts to Islam, and that&rsquo;s one of the interesting, unexpected, unlooked for aspects of it that it doesn&rsquo;t suddenly turn you into a hand clapping dervish, but relocates you and helps you to see what&rsquo;s of value in what has been lost in the last 50 years or so, although, of course, with a new set of beliefs. But people in this time where everybody believes in polarities, and Islam is figured as the kind of &lsquo;dark other&rsquo; a sort of yellow peril, the antithesis of everything that we hold dear in the West. And of course, we saw that dangerously on our streets just last week with the riots. There are a lot of polarities at the moment across Europe, in particular. Once you get into the reading, you see that actually Islam is probably the closest religion to Christianity, and it may well be that, because of our conservatism, we hold to many things that are traditionally important to Christians, rather more than many churchgoers do. So it&rsquo;s probably the case that a higher proportion of British Muslims believe in the virgin birth than church going Anglicans. That would be my guess because I talk to church groups, sometimes I&rsquo;m quite skeptical about some of these traditional stories and miracles.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1824216401" paraeid="{d62d02ea-2443-46c5-9f82-43b00fa4dcdd}{53}">So Islam is the only non&ndash;Christian religion that has an honored place for Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah, born of a virgin, bearer of a great scripture, somebody who will come again at the end of time, as Judge, which is not the case for if you&rsquo;re moving into, say, the Hare Krishna, onto Taoism, or into some new age group. And of course, when Islam emerged in the seventh century, many of the first Christians who looked at it with kind of astonishment said, actually, this isn&rsquo;t a new religion, this is a Christian heresy. If they believe in Jesus and Abraham and the prophets, it&rsquo;s a kind of Christianity. It&rsquo;s really weird, stranger than the Arians and some of those other groups that came to be defined as heretical. I don&rsquo;t see Islam as a Christian heresy, it clearly is a separate religion, but the fact that it has frequently been perceived as such, indicates that actually the gulf that one jumps is not nearly as yawning and terrifying as you might think. So I experienced it as a slow continuum, rather than a sudden bolt from the blue, a sudden changing of my personality and worldview. It was rather subdued, really.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1618950433" paraeid="{d62d02ea-2443-46c5-9f82-43b00fa4dcdd}{187}">Elizabeth&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="544885409" paraeid="{d62d02ea-2443-46c5-9f82-43b00fa4dcdd}{193}">And how did your family react?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1769273614" paraeid="{d62d02ea-2443-46c5-9f82-43b00fa4dcdd}{207}">Timothy Winter&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1546777571" paraeid="{d62d02ea-2443-46c5-9f82-43b00fa4dcdd}{215}">Well, again, we&rsquo;re talking about 1979 &ndash; the heyday of middle&ndash;class panic about teenagers joining cults. So of course, they thought, oh, dear, this is exactly what&rsquo;s happened to our Timmy. And look, he&rsquo;s not eating bacon for breakfast any longer, but he doesn&rsquo;t go to the pub, and he doesn&rsquo;t seem to have girlfriends, and we must get to the bottom of this. So they made some inquiries, and they visited some of the Muslim convert groups that I was associating with at the time. And I think, looking at my mother&rsquo;s diary, because she wrote all of this down, she wrote 80 volumes of diaries, so I have a kind of window into her mind, I think she was quite reassured when she saw that there were plenty of other sort of middle of the road, middle&ndash;class English people at the time who were becoming Muslim and that I wasn&rsquo;t going to come back with four Sudanese wives and practice some kind of animal sacrifice on the front lawn. Even then, there was a lot of what we now call Islamophobia and misgivings, and this is even before Khomeini, before the whole fundamentalist horror had burst onto people&rsquo;s awareness. So I think that after a year or so, their anxieties were settled. And then I got married, and they had grandchildren, and things became pretty normal. And I guess it was nice for them to have a child who still believed and respected the old stories that had been important to my ancestors, those stories are basically there in the Quran. So it took a bit of persuading to explain to them that this is actually something that&rsquo;s in continuity with the other monotheisms, rather than something from planet Neptune that is entirely unrecognizable and rather frightening.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>What do you wish people understood about Islam?&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1699453077" paraeid="{5faa5fa1-0538-4768-9f0a-f2c53e7adc9e}{114}">Elizabeth&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1730894455" paraeid="{5faa5fa1-0538-4768-9f0a-f2c53e7adc9e}{120}">Yes, you&rsquo;ve touched on a few things about some of the stories that are told about Islam, about sexuality and radical discontinuity with Christianity. For listeners who have very little understanding of Islam, or don&rsquo;t know any Muslims, what are the key things you wish they understood that might help them when they&rsquo;re seeking to be people who can listen and engage across these kind of differences?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="515378844" paraeid="{5faa5fa1-0538-4768-9f0a-f2c53e7adc9e}{162}">Timothy Winter&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1892067730" paraeid="{5faa5fa1-0538-4768-9f0a-f2c53e7adc9e}{170}">Some have not mentioned already. A lot of Christians don&rsquo;t know that there&rsquo;s more about the Virgin Mary in the Quran than there is in the Gospels, for instance. Marian parti is very important in the Islamic world. Just yesterday, I was translating a text about the death of the Virgin Mary from a 12th century Central Asian scholar writing in what&rsquo;s called Middle Turkic, so even in that remote place eight centuries ago, Muslims considered it important to write devotional poetry that would be chanted in devotional settings about things that Christians often think are kind of uniquely theirs. It&rsquo;s important to recognize that the religion is very family oriented in terms of what we call the &lsquo;organic&rsquo; rather than the nuclear family. So even today, in quite humble accommodation in Muslim areas of Britain, you will find grandparents still cared for in the home. This is a very important part of the traditional Muslim ethic, and they play an important part in looking after children. There is also, of course, the prayer five times a day, starting at dawn. We face the Abraham&rsquo;s House in Mecca and bow to the Lord of the Universe. And that is something that is really the most characteristic watchword of Islam. And mosques everywhere are full, because people actually love these practices. An important thing to realize, is that Muslims continue to be religious because we love what we do. We love our Prophet, we love God &ndash; it&rsquo;s very love based. If you look at classical Muslim devotional literature, you&rsquo;ll see the principle of love is foremost. Everybody now reads Rumi, for instance, who&rsquo;s kind of made the leap into the New Age world and is actually the best&ndash;selling religious poet in the United States now, even though he was an imam from what&rsquo;s now Afghanistan. So at the height of the War on terror, Americans still found themselves opening their hearts to this form of traditional Muslim love&ndash;based piety. That aspect of the religion, I think, needs to be better understood, because it&rsquo;s pretty universal. It&rsquo;s about beauty, it&rsquo;s about love, compassion, humor. And those texts are absolutely axiomatic across the traditional Islamic world. So sometimes there&rsquo;s a kind of improper importation of letter versus spirit dichotomy, that Muslims all about lots of complicated rules, like the nasty old rabbis, allegedly, criticized and abrogated by the New Testament writers and that now we&rsquo;re supposed to be free in the spirit, and that&rsquo;s much more spiritual and real. I don&rsquo;t think that&rsquo;s essentially an antisemitic trope, because Jewish literature is full of ecstatic references to the God that one loves, and the dancing rabbis, for instance, are a familiar phenomenon. Rabbis seem to dance a lot more than Church of England vicars do! We need to overcome that binary to see that there&rsquo;s a lot of joy, happiness, love, in those Semitic traditions. And I certainly found that to be the case in Islam as well, that throughout its literature. I&rsquo;m a lecturer in Islamic studies, I spend my life in the libraries, and I find that joy, that love, that preoccupation with human and natural beauty to be something that is constant for Muslims and is often not understood by outsiders.&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>The core differences between Christianity and Islam&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="903018311" paraeid="{2a3eaa52-8c5b-4130-9265-e67c7a9ed633}{211}">Elizabeth&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="2087871942" paraeid="{2a3eaa52-8c5b-4130-9265-e67c7a9ed633}{217}">Yes, thank you, that&rsquo;s beautiful. And I kind of want to ask you about the key differences as well. One of my one of my frustrations with some of the way kind of interfaith engagement goes is because I think we have a really faulty theology of difference, we see it as a threat, not a gift. We try and elide difference and only focus on huge commonalities, which there are. But I&rsquo;m thinking particularly of something I read where you were talking about your early encounter with Muhammad, and through a text that wasn&rsquo;t particularly helpful about him, but the sense of Muhammad as someone who stood up against oppression. And use this phrase, &ldquo;Like Che Guevara with God&rdquo;, and I wonder if there is something, not that there&rsquo;s necessarily a threat in it, but the figure of Jesus and the figure of Muhammad are different, right? And that&rsquo;s part of what I think that&rsquo;s some of the tension is for those of us looking on at the religion to help to understand that figure better.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="968034694" paraeid="{28bdbd62-b700-4fb9-8d19-71acadb56fac}{70}">Timothy Winter&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="2063798883" paraeid="{28bdbd62-b700-4fb9-8d19-71acadb56fac}{78}">It&rsquo;s complex, of course, because the debate is ongoing about exactly what Jesus made of the Roman occupation, of traditional Jewish apparent collaboration with the Roman occupation. Some think he was actually a zealot, and that was airbrushed out of the texts later on, for fear of panicking the Roman authorities. And I&rsquo;m not really a New Testament expert, I can&rsquo;t comment on that. But clearly in prophetic religion, there is a willingness to stick one&rsquo;s neck out and to make trouble when confronted by oppression and tyranny. And you see that a lot in the Hebrew prophets, and perhaps Christ, when He overturns the tables of the money changes in the temple, is making that kind of statement. It must have been quite a major operation, I guess. Looking at the Christian scriptures as they exist today, many Muslims confess themselves slightly disappointed that Christ is living in his own country, which is under a brutal foreign military occupation, and he doesn&rsquo;t seem to be phased by that or saying anything against it. He even says, you know, &ldquo;Help the legionary to carry his burden&rdquo;, &ldquo;Resist, not him that is evil&rdquo;, &ldquo;Turn the other cheek&rdquo;, in ways which seem to be commendable, but when it&rsquo;s somebody else&rsquo;s cheek that&rsquo;s being smacked, you have a basic moral responsibility to intervene. So that pacifist portrait of Christ in the Gospel sometimes seems a little bit thin and morally disappointing. I remember actually, going back to my school days, our headmaster speaking from the pulpit at Westminster Abbey, was talking about the, &ldquo;Render unto Caesar, that which is Caesar&rsquo;s&rdquo;, moment in the Gospels, and he actually preached against it. He said, &ldquo;This is wrong. This is evasive. He&rsquo;s not being frank. It&rsquo;s unclear.&rdquo; And he should speak out frankly, even if he endangers himself against the terrible things that are being done to his to his people: the subversion of their religions, mass crucifixions, the horrors of Roman occupation.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="406751851" paraeid="{313d39ac-9c6f-400f-adf0-60d09592a55f}{3}">So there is something in the sort of idea of sort of hippie Christ wandering around Galilee with the daffodil, preaching peace and love, that certainly from the point of view the 1970s, which is the kind of aftermath of the anti&ndash;colonial revolts and one of the things we were into in school was opposing apartheid South Africa and South Africa&rsquo;s occupation of Namibia, and a gospel response to that didn&rsquo;t seem to be quite right to us, and that something a little bit more militant seemed to be morally appropriate. That is, after all, what we&rsquo;ve always done as a country, whatever has been the message of the Gospel preached in the churches, we&rsquo;ve always had a doctrine of just war. And I think that&rsquo;s a tension within some Christian theology, that the person of Christ in the Gospels is unmistakably pacifist, and yet, following Augustine, the church came up with actually quite morally impressive ideas about just war: that you can defend yourself, you can defend the weak, you can fight against oppressors. So that tendency, I suppose, is what the Prophet is already articulating, that if you&rsquo;re facing extermination at the hands of an evil pagan tyranny, you can defend yourself, which is what he did. So, I found that story liberative, I don&rsquo;t know if it&rsquo;s Che Guevara, something that spoke to me rather more than the somewhat bloodless and faint message on politics that seemed to be conveyed by the Gospels.&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>The shift in the spiritual landscape: Are people more open to Islam?&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1009456948" paraeid="{313d39ac-9c6f-400f-adf0-60d09592a55f}{145}">Elizabeth&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="587342069" paraeid="{313d39ac-9c6f-400f-adf0-60d09592a55f}{151}">Yes, that&rsquo;s helpful, thank you. I wanted to ask, we started with hearing about the trajectory of the kind of Congregationalist ministers of your grandparents&rsquo; generation, and this modernist kind of mid&ndash;century, 1960s rebellion against that, and then this 1970s seeking after all kinds of sources of the sacred that you were swept up in. I&rsquo;m really interested in what you think is happening right now, because I am feeling this &ndash; certainly from when I took over at Theos, 12 or 13 years ago to now &ndash; this huge shift in how open people are to talk and think about spirituality and to even kind of express metaphysical yearnings. And I still don&rsquo;t know where we are, but there&rsquo;s this question about whether the few big public conversions, particularly to Orthodox Christianity, but others, are happening, is there a new desire for tradition? Is there a desire for rootedness or reconnection with ancestors? One, I wanted to ask if you&rsquo;re seeing it in Islam as well, is there a spike in conversions? And if not, generally where are we in this moment with the spiritual landscape?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1840405993" paraeid="{bc7176e9-5906-416f-b952-25a76445e45d}{24}">Timothy Winter&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="37323800" paraeid="{bc7176e9-5906-416f-b952-25a76445e45d}{32}">I think that,&nbsp; it even seems to be a scientific view that religiosity is kind of normative to human beings, and that its absence is almost a dysfunction, or even, I saw a cheeky piece in The Daily Telegraph which said that actually, atheism is a mental illness, because it&rsquo;s not what the brain is designed for. We&rsquo;re designed to make sense of the world, to flourish and to have children. If we believe that there&rsquo;s a meaning behind things and that relationships are sacred, that the dead are honored and so forth, since the Stone Age, we&rsquo;ve all been religious, and we&rsquo;ve all perceived the deep, transcendent mystery in virgin nature, in particular. I don&rsquo;t think that can be extirpated from human beings. I think there&rsquo;s a deep disillusion with established religion, and sometimes that&rsquo;s almost a kind of prophetic desire to turn over the tables of the money changers and to say your reverence talk about something real, please! You have so many amazing things in your scripture that can inspire us, why are you giving us this very thin gruel based on various late 20th century liberal ideas which you believe you found in your Scripture? We want something a little bit more spiky, controversial, counter cultural. I think the young in particular look to religion as being prophetic, trouble making and disruptive, because they can see that the modern world is in deep trouble. It&rsquo;s unstable. It hasn&rsquo;t delivered on many of the promises of humanism. We have a major war going on now in Europe, in which, unfortunately, rival church hierarchies are deeply implicated. We have worsening calamities in the Middle East. We have the rise of various forms of dangerous religionized nationalisms in the Islamic world, in India, among many Trump voters, nobody is really off the hook when it comes to the political mis&ndash;instrumentalization of religion. That puts a lot of people off.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1096558680" paraeid="{bc7176e9-5906-416f-b952-25a76445e45d}{160}">But there&rsquo;s also a sense that we are failing as a species, even though the population crisis is an example of that, we&rsquo;re not replicating ourselves. In Scotland now the average woman has 1.3 babies, which is historically unprecedented. In South Korea, it&rsquo;s even worse, which, even from a secular point of view, has to indicate that as a species, we&rsquo;re failing. Not only are we threatening the habitat and the existence of countless thousands of other species who also &ndash; this is a Quranic teaching &ndash; are nations like yourselves and have the right to praise God in their own way. Not only are we guilty of a kind of genocide against other living things, sentient beings, that share the planet with us, but we&rsquo;re even not good to ourselves in that our own species is in danger. We&rsquo;re all getting old; we&rsquo;re not having babies. There&rsquo;s a profound dysfunction going on at the moment, and this all seems to be part of a larger problem, the desacralizing of nature can&rsquo;t be separated from the climate crisis. Artificial Intelligence raises very alarming questions about the possible replacement of humanity, and can there be artificial intelligence? What happens if the internet wakes up one morning and says, &ldquo;Well, I&rsquo;ve got a lot of information about different religions, and I&rsquo;ve decided that I want to be Zoroastrian, so please explain how I practice that.&rdquo; All these completely new, challenging, mind&ndash;boggling things are being chucked at young people in particular. And there&rsquo;s a deep skepticism about the modern project. There are too many existential threats, and none of them are coming from religion, really. So there is a sense that yeah, people do need to get back to that primordial, Paleolithic sense of the imminent sanctity of nature, which is evoked in the Quran in particular, which is constantly telling us to look at God&rsquo;s signs in nature and to look at the way Heaven and Earth have been created, and the fact Muslim worship is directed by the movements of the solar system. The sun and the moon dictate the times of our services and our fasting month. So yes, I think a lot of people are alert now to the fact that they are naturally religiously thirsty, and we have seen in Muslim communities a big spike in conversions. So, in our local mosque in Cambridge, we had 205 conversions registered last year, which is twice as many as the previous year. And since, paradoxically perhaps, the Gaza thing erupted, we&rsquo;ve had also a number of conversions coming in from different communities, from every possible background. So converts were a significant part of the British Muslim community now there are maybe 150,000 or more active converts, and I suspect that they form part of a larger pattern of people moving into traditional forms of religion. You mentioned the growth in baptisms in the Orthodox churches. It may well be that something analogous is happening in Islam, and quite possibly in other traditions as well, I don&rsquo;t know. But yeah, there is a sense of secular crisis, which is making people think more respectfully about faith.&nbsp;</p> <p><strong>Insights from Islam on how to engage with different people&nbsp;</strong></p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1855728257" paraeid="{28480e20-3318-431d-8e59-d07f9d156335}{113}">Elizabeth&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="158859525" paraeid="{28480e20-3318-431d-8e59-d07f9d156335}{119}">Yes. I want to end by asking, what is the key thing you&rsquo;ve learned about how we engage with people who are different from ourselves? Whether it&rsquo;s from your Islamic teaching or just from your experiences in life, for those listening thinking, gosh, we are getting more divided, I struggle to see people different from myself as fully human sometimes I think, if we&rsquo;re all honest, deep down, what helps us?&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="718263650" paraeid="{28480e20-3318-431d-8e59-d07f9d156335}{169}">Timothy Winter&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1080428557" paraeid="{28480e20-3318-431d-8e59-d07f9d156335}{177}">Well, some of those old religious stories, the idea that we have common ancestors, Adam and Eve, is really important. Everybody is a sibling, several times removed. The idea, which is shared by the monotheisms that we&rsquo;re made in the image of God, conveys a certain what in Islamic theology is called iśmat al&ndash;ādamiyyīn the inviolability of Adamic descent. People are intrinsically inviolable. They may then go on to commit mass murder or whatever, but in themselves, they partake of the inviolability of the nobility of Adamic descent. There&rsquo;s Quranic verses which are important to me, such as the one that says, &ldquo;Mankind, we have created you male and female and have made you tribes and nations that you might know one another.&rdquo; That&rsquo;s an important verse for me, that the diversity of the world is not some kind of Tower of Babel curse, the tower of Babel is not in the Quran, but it&rsquo;s in fact a sign that God wishes his image to be presented in a rainbow&ndash;like diversity of different forms and the uniqueness of every individual. And again, Muslim poets like Rumi, always talking about how much you can learn about the divine just by considering the human face. Not just the beauty of human beings, but also the deep mystery of the presence of a soul, which is conveyed in the formation of the human face. And I think that kind of sacred humanism is something that has to be cultivated in all of the religions, which have all fallen prey to stupid essentialism, and fundamentalism, and nationalism, and Islamism in a way that is very untimely, given the human sacred hunger at the moment, that we need to return to that idea of the sanctity of human beings and the inviolability of everybody who is created in God&rsquo;s image. I think that theology needs to be resurrected as a matter of urgency.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="61164503" paraeid="{4ca290fc-5300-4a2b-a9cf-fb9559fd30eb}{58}">Elizabeth&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="6197287" paraeid="{4ca290fc-5300-4a2b-a9cf-fb9559fd30eb}{64}">Tim Winter, thank you so much for speaking to me on The Sacred.&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="1234344702" paraeid="{4ca290fc-5300-4a2b-a9cf-fb9559fd30eb}{80}">Timothy Winter&nbsp;</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="229633285" paraeid="{4ca290fc-5300-4a2b-a9cf-fb9559fd30eb}{92}">Thank you so much, it&rsquo;s been an honour.</p> <p scxw13481109="" bcx8"="" paraid="229633285" paraeid="{4ca290fc-5300-4a2b-a9cf-fb9559fd30eb}{92}">&nbsp;</p> <hr><p><strong>Interested in this? Share it on social media.&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/E9E17CAB71AC7464"><strong>Join our monthly e&ndash;newsletter</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/about/support-us"><strong>Supporter Programme</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to find out how you can help our work.</strong>&nbsp;</p> ]]>
</description>
<author>hello@theosthinktank.co.uk (Elizabeth Oldfield)</author>
<guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/16/converting-to-islam-and-the-pursuit-of-meaning-with-dr-timothy-winter-abdal-hakim-murad</guid>
</item>
<item>
<title>The space to believe is being squeezed </title>
<link>https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/10/the-space-to-believe-is-being-squeezed</link>
<pubDate>Thu, 10 Oct 2024 10:51:00 +0100</pubDate>
<description>
<![CDATA[ <figure><img src="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/assets/generated/articles/page/888d96f7eafa59718e5a0def4ce299ae.jpg" alt="The space to believe is being squeezed " width="600" /></figure><p><em>Andrew Graystone reflects on our conversation with Prof. Stephen Schneck, who says that political identity is replacing the sense of community in America and around the world. 10/10/2024</em></p><p><iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/szRTjgr0Lgw?si=juEe82HQAq8o_aMC" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen=""></iframe></p> <p>Four weeks to the day from the United States presidential election, Professor Stephen Schneck has warned that religion is a polarising factor in the US and that religious freedom is in retreat around the world. Stephen Schneck is chair of the US Commission on International Religious Freedom, an agency of the US Congress. He previously served the Obama administration as a member of the White House Advisory Council for Faith&ndash;Based and Neighbourhood Partnerships, and was also chair of the Catholics for Biden campaign.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>Stephen Schneck was in conversation with Revd Dr Giles Fraser, at Theos, the religion and society think tank, on Tuesday 8 October. He said: &ldquo;I see freedom of religion and belief in retreat around the world. It&rsquo;s not just people who belong to organised religion who are being squeezed, but people who practice indigenous religion and even atheism.&rdquo;&nbsp;</p> <p>There are two main reasons for the growing pressure on religions, he said. The first is that the rise of authoritarian politics squeezes out the space for other forms of authority. Belief in an outside power, or in scripture, present a challenge to authoritarian regimes. The second source of pressure is the unfolding of globalisation. He identifies &ldquo;a sense of dislocation&rdquo; that makes people feel so insecure in their own religion that they become antagonistic to other communities of belief.&nbsp;&nbsp;</p> <p>He sees America as &ldquo;deeply split&rdquo;, not only on partisan lines, but also by class, race and poverty. All of these factors play into the &lsquo;culture wars&rsquo;, the polarisation of US society. &ldquo;There&rsquo;s no way that this level of polarisation can be sustained, either in the US or elsewhere in the West<span style="text-decoration: underline;">,</span>&rdquo;, Professor Schneck said. &ldquo;Without bridging it, governance is impossible. The next president, whoever he or she is, must reach out to the other side.&rdquo; &nbsp;Schneck pronounced himself ultimately hopeful. &ldquo;The system may come up to the precipice but it will then have to be resolved.&rdquo;&nbsp;</p> <p>Asked how religion is playing into the US election, Professor Schneck said that the religious communities in the US are equally prone to polarisation. According to his estimate the Roman Catholic church roughly mirrors the US population in being split 48:48 between Democrat and Republican parties. He feels that white evangelicals are divided about 80:20. Both presidential candidates are appealing to religion to mobilise voters.&nbsp;</p> <p>&ldquo;The role of religion is a bit less than it was in the past<span style="text-decoration: underline;">,</span>&rdquo;, he said for many religious people, the thinking is that irrespective of his personal flaws, he <span style="text-decoration: underline;">[</span>Donald Trump] is associated with a tradition that will strengthen the role of religion.&rdquo; Professor Schneck said that some evangelicals would vote for Trump on purely pragmatic grounds, such as his role in appointing conservative&ndash;leaning Supreme Court Justices. In truth, he said, the vast majority of Americans don&rsquo;t know in detail the policy positions of the candidates. Partisanship is an identity that people have taken on, and through that identity they look at a range of issues.&nbsp;</p> <p>Around the world, Schneck sees a blurring between secular and religious leadership. As the grip of traditional religions has diminished, other identities have taken its place. Politicised identity replaces the sense of community; it fills the gap left by the decline of community associations including faith groups. &ldquo;Our anchors have been washed away<span style="text-decoration: underline;">,</span>&rdquo;, said Professor Schneck. &ldquo;Rootlessness affects so much of the contemporary world, and that contributes to the rise of political polarisation.&rdquo; He described India as a telling example, in which the rise of religious nationalism associated with the BJP has closed out the space for people to espouse other religions. Prime Minister Narandra Modi has stepped into this space &ndash; a political leader offering quasi&ndash;religious leadership. &nbsp;</p> <p>&ldquo;Faith communities need to proceed practically, and pragmatically<span style="text-decoration: underline;">,</span>&rdquo; he said. Efforts to rebuild community can be positive, but they can also be horribly negative. It was the sense of alienation and rootlessness that created a vacuum in Europe in the 1930s. &nbsp;</p> <p>We need to show people the whole of what religion is &ndash; not just a part. His advice for church leaders? &ldquo;More listening; more humility.&rdquo;&nbsp;</p> <p><em>A political philosopher by training, Stephen Schneck retired from The Catholic University of America in 2018, after more than thirty years as a professor. He served the administration of President Barack Obama as a member of the White House Advisory Council for Faith&ndash;Based and Neighbourhood Partnerships, and was chair of the Catholics for Biden campaign. Professor Schneck is now chair of the US Commission on International Religious Freedom, an agency of the US Congress. He was speaking to Revd Dr Giles Fraser, an Anglican priest and broadcaster in front of an invited audience at Theos, the religion and society think tank, on Tuesday 8 October 2024.&nbsp;</em>&nbsp;</p> <p>&nbsp;</p> <hr><p><strong>Interested in this? Share it on social media.&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/https://confirmsubscription.com/h/d/E9E17CAB71AC7464"><strong>Join our monthly e&ndash;newsletter</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to keep up to date with our latest research and events. And check out our&nbsp;</strong><a href="https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/about/support-us"><strong>Supporter Programme</strong></a><strong>&nbsp;to find out how you can help our work.</strong></p> ]]>
</description>
<author>andrew.graystone@theosthinktank.co.uk (Andrew Graystone)</author>
<guid isPermaLink="true">https://www.theosthinktank.co.uk/comment/2024/10/10/the-space-to-believe-is-being-squeezed</guid>
</item>
</channel>
</rss>